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View Diary: Why The Death Penalty Should Matter to Progressives (298 comments)

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  •  Sean and thank you for your responses. My replies (0+ / 0-)

    -- if we are looking at only the costs of only the death penalty and LWOP, then there is ONLY a plea bargain is to LWOP. No one is suggesting, nationally, a replacement of the death penalty with anything but LWOP, because everyone knows it is the only thing that may succeed. Therefore a cost comparions can only include a plea to LWOP with credit to the death penalty. There cannot be a cost savings for a plea to less than LWOP because that is not in the mix. It is self evident, throughout all of my cost reviews, just as it is within the national debate.

    -- I never stated that no innocents were executed, I have never stated that, not have I ever believed that.  I stated there is no proof of it, because I am trying to avoid speculation. I think we are on the same page, here.

    -- Functionally the appeals process may be similar, but reality finds them quite different. As SCOTUS has stated, the death penalty has super due process. LWOP doesn't even come close. There is not the same mechanism for automatic appeals.

     2 and 3) you must be confusing something here.  The death penalty protects innocent lives better, in three ways, than does LWOP. Two are uncontradicted. 1) Enhanced due process -  The death penalty has greater due process protections than all other sanctions, therefore, innocents are better protected. 2) Enhanced Incapacitation --  Executed murderers do not harm and murder, again, living murderers do. This has nothing to do with releasing prisoners, I am comparing execution and LWOP, as I stated. It is no phantom, but an obvious truism. 3) Enhanced deterrence -  the evidence ways in favor of enhanced deterrence.

    4) Virgina has shown itself to be trustworthy and very efficient. A good example for all jurisdictions.

     5) No one can prove there is no deterrent effect. But we do know that all prospects of a negative outcome deter some. It is a truism.  True not in a vacuum but in reality. Clearly,  you have read none of the deterrence material. As I repeatedly stated, you can't rely on murder rates. I believe all deterrence is significant, as I stated and reviewed in detail, with my rebuke to radelet.   It appears that you are unconvinced either because you did not read my entire piece or you misunderstood it, as your comments seem to indicate, one or the other.

    SEE DETERRENCE at bottom

     6) The 80% death penalty support figure is from multiple polls from multiple polling groups at many different times, with different methodologies, so I don't know what you are talking about.

     7. It is a true and accurate reflection of the academic leadership within the anti death penalty movement, so it is important to have in the debate, as an historical fact.  - no matter the cost in innocent lives, they wish to end the death penalty. It is not character assassination. Maybe character suicide. It is their admitted position.
    You have not rebutted my three points on the death penalty being a greater protector of innocent lives. Nor do I think you, factually or logically, can.

    ---  You're dead wrong. A preference poll is not an exclusion poll. You are simply making up the exclusion part, out of thin air. My ice cream analogy is rock solid and you cannot rebut it and have made no effort to do so, because you cannot.

    We're talking polling here and, of course, popularity is of major importance in polls. *8% support the death penalty for truly death penalty eligible crimes, from multiple polling groups over many years. You just don't like it. Ok by me.

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