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View Diary: Captain Kos, the crew is getting restless. (321 comments)

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  •  Heh, I don't actually see them as 'compromise' (5+ / 0-)

    so much as 'reality'.  The United States has a vast history of attachment to its firearms, and that's not something that will change in decades, much less overnight.  While I'd love to see gun ownership shrink tremendously, and become limited to people who actually hunt or use them at target ranges, I don't see that happening in my lifetime, barring some freak technological advance that allows the use of firearms to be made moot - 'Dune'-esque personal shields, or somesuch.  Otherwise, it will be a multi-generational change to simply even stop glorifying violence (and not just gun violence, but all sorts) in media, much less actually removing the guns. (And no, I'm not blaming gun violence on media, just pointing out that it reflects American ideas about such, and acknowledging that it can choose to reinforce those ideas or stigmatize them.)

    I also don't see any point in fighting with RKBA'ers, although even when I explicitly say in a comment to kestrel9k that I'm not trying to 'needle' him when I ask him to clarify his thoughts on something that strikes me as a dichotomy, he still doesn't believe me and thinks I'm trying to play mind games.  

    And that's the wider problem onsite, or at least one of them.  People on differing sides of various fights simply don't trust that the folks who disagree with them are arguing in good faith, and aren't willing to believe so even when it's stated explicitly.

    The highly recced TTFN today is a perfect example.  The diarist makes multiple claims that the people he feels are 'driving him off' (or however he says it) are deliberately seeking to cause pain on the American people out of ideological purity, and gets incredible numbers of people agreeing with him.  Which quite frankly is a load of paranoid bollocks.

    People onsite disagree, and most of them even tell you exactly why they disagree.  There's no need to impute sinister motives, some sort of sadism.  Each side feels their given choice will actually result in less pain.  Some feel that given the crappy choices it's better to spread pain out to more people, others to allow a much smaller number of people to take a hit while trying to figure out a way to help them in other ways.  I think everyone would agree that the Republicans have behaved atrociously in all of this, but we disagree on how best to avoid giving them future power, and how to reduce the overall pain they're inflicting on the country.

    Hell, both 'sides' are now accusing the other of supporting 'austerity'.  By now, most everyone onsite agrees that 'austerity' is bad, but since they disagree on which particular path will most likely or most quickly lead to austerity, both blame the other for 'embracing' it.

    It's a mess, and tbh, I do kind of think some guidance from above would be helpful - not because I particularly think kos or anyone else has the 'revealed truth', but simply because we've got to figure out how to get past 'bad faith'.  In my own comments a few days back, I got so annoyed that I even started throwing such accusations.  And yeah, I got a ton of tips for those comments, but so freaking what?  They weren't a sign that my comments were helpful, but simply that there were a lot of other people who were simply fed up in that comment thread.

    •  I've been trying real hard (7+ / 0-)

      to stay out of pie fights. They're emotionally draining, waste time, don't win anyone over, and accomplish nothing. It often feels like a variation on "My version of Troskyism is better than your version of Trotskyism, bitch!".

      And I agree about the gun thing. We're not getting rid of guns or Americans' fondness for them, there are definitely legitimate reasons to own and use certain kinds of guns, and meaningful reform is not possible without an alliance with gun owners (as opposed to the NRA which does not have their back).

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 04:29:48 PM PST

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      •  staying out is the best medicine (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kovie

        We all have a pretty good sense who the pie fighters are, so unless you go in for that sort of thing, why engage in it?  THere's SOOO much more to this site!

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:19:35 PM PST

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        •  I've been a party to some (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mindful Nature

          Which is how I know that they're so pointless.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:29:16 PM PST

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          •  I think I've been your partner (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kovie

            for some of those!  HEre's to a new year of less pointlessnes!

            Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

            by Mindful Nature on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:55:38 PM PST

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