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View Diary: The IMF: Incompetent, Ideological or Simply Lying? (85 comments)

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  •  I don't share your faith (3+ / 0-)
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    JesseCW, Odysseus, NY brit expat

    Who are these Leftist that you are referencing?

    Are they out there somewhere hidden under the population in some way that I can't see?

    Talking I don't get the sense they are. I am very pessimistic.

    I would like to make a series of unconnected observations:

    (1) I talk to people too. My sense is that even if they realize there is a problem they aren't willing to do anything about it.

    (2) Most of the people I talk to are delusional. They think things are going to get better right around some mythical corner.

    (3) You are on site that is not exactly known for radical change.  So, I would like to know where you would suggest one go to see some real change other than rhetoric? You got people here who are clear out and out radical conservatives calling themselves "Progressive." Its like your debate, if you want to call it that, the other day with Cedwyn (a classic conservative pretending not to be because she supports Obama who is also a conservative but they have decided to label as "left of center" which I guess is true if you don't realize "left" now means where George Bush was in 1980 (hence the video).  Here she was at first lying about the chained CPI issue, and following up with b.s. that was clearly so false that multiple people had to correct her. Yet she is allowed to continue to post her clogging up the exchange with things that aren't sort of lies, or sort of spins, but just up and up lies. No one says "okay this is the line here" No one says "You know we are for Democrats, b ut only Democrats who are going to move the party to the left so that we can have a course correction." No one does anything bout bad faith actors at all. So, where are ou going to find folks who do care and have enough popular support to get things done?

    (4) I look at things like OWS, and I think: What a joke. Forget all the government stuff about watching them. There was nothing to see. Essentially you had a "movement" that wasn't interested in in being political. They believes as most of the working class that calls itself middle class in the U.S. that the problem is that no one understands the problem. That if we all just sit around and create a list then the pols will suddenly just give up that pay day after they leave off to do the right thing by us while in office. Its the delusional of privilege. Someone once told me that most great boxers do not come from the middle class and the wealthy because only the poor understand. I would say that a real movement isn't going to happen because the people you need to get on board either don't know how to fight or don't want to fight.

    (5) I am in agreement with your assessment of Labour. I would say the same about the Socialist parties in Europe such as in France and in other countries. They have been neutered.

    I am extremely pessimistic about the future. I think in the U.S. demographic changes may move the country to the left , but there are so many forces aligned against such a move that it is more likely that it can also be co opted by rhetoric as it already has been that's about identity rather than about economic issues affecting people of color. The reactionary NeoLiberal party in the US is already reacting to the Conservative Neolberal Party's ability to woo those voters based on identity. I don't see any effort to woo them from a real left that says "we know you want medicare for all" and we agree with you." It jsut does not exist here.

    I don't sense it exists in Europe either.

    The Core problem: The "middle class" (which is really workign class) bought into the Faustian bargain because from the late 40s until the 80s-90s or so, it seemed on paper like a good bargain, even if it wasn't perfect. They could point to and count on a history of ever increasing wealth for themselves.

    The delusion still exists. There are forces in our society that keep the delusion going. The appearance of recovery for example seems real. It may be a bubble, but as a bubble is occuring it feels real.  The real estate market in the US appears to be recovering.  NEvermind if it may be another bubble.

    I don't know. I just don't know if you are giving option that reflect reality.

    I wrote a diary recently- most people are in denial. How are you going to address teh denial? Because if you don't I don't see you suceeding. Articles like this are great for someone like me. I am choir. Most people- in every day conversation- when I try to break it down- either don't have the education (even with college degrees) to get it, or don't want to get it.

    •  hey bruh1, it was 2:30 am (0+ / 0-)

      when I saw your excellent post and needed to give more of a response than I was able to at that time.

      The way that I am seeing things, is that we are in the earliest stages of a fightback in both the US and UK. The vast majority of people still believe that their politicians have their back and still think that this is a small problem as that is what they are being told every day on the news, in newspaper and by their politicians and economists.

      Building a fight-back on all levels is essential. Articles like this which try to explode the lies and myths are only ammunition which can be used against them. We do not lead, we can only provide ammunition. It is the people that are being destroyed by these policies that must move; we can only participate.

      I look at Greece and Spain. What are the differences between these two countries where the level of struggle is far higher than where we are? The main difference I can see is the impact of an anti-austerity party that people can vote for ... SYRIZA has displaced PASOK which introduced these measures. In Spain, there is demonstration after demonstration, strike after strike, but once those are over, all that is left is anger.  At this point, the ruling class in Spain and international capital is not threatened enough to change; look at the impact of SYRIZA ... the troika was hysterical.

      As such, that is why I say, build the movement, build the fightback and then also offer an anti-capitalist anti-austerity party so that those that believe in the system have a party to represent their interests. We are very far from a revolutionary situation, but things change fast; 4 years ago, SYRIZA was a small party, now it is a mass party. The combination of a movement and a party are very powerful and that can bring change about ...

      I thought your diary was excellent; we need to keep writing these pieces. Tonight, I go to a meeting where we are working on building a movement ... the NHS is under attack and we think we can unite people to protect it. The struggle occurs at all levels, it will take time, we are fighting against people's delusions, their cognitive dissonance and the fact that the horrific is seen as normal. To change that will take a major transformation in people's consciousness.

      "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

      by NY brit expat on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:38:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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