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View Diary: SEC is giving “big banks license to manipulate commodities” (165 comments)

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  •  Now, you're really being not just DISRUPTIVE... (1+ / 0-)
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    ...but you're putting forth a very disingenuous/false meme (if you refer to my last comment, up above...which I'll re-post here)...

    And, this happens with commodities in general... far as ETF trading is concerned (concerning NON-COMMERCIAL trading, which is an important point) how often?

    1% of the time, at most, throughout the commodities industry (again as far as non-commercial ETF trading is concerned)?

    We're definitely not just talking about gold, where I would assume (as far as non-commercial trading is concerned, there's a tendency to take physical possession of gold, perhaps moreso than any other commodity).

    We're talking about trading in agricultural goods and items other than gold, primarily, as far as the commentary in my post is concerned (but, I'm assuming you're well aware of that).

    So, aside from gold, what percent of non-commercial ETF trading (of the the type you're referencing) would you professionally guess ends up in spot delivery? I'd venture to guess it's less than 1%.

    What my post is about relates to spot delivery-related trades. (And, being a "pro"--which I'm not--I'm sure you already realize that.) And, therein lies the/a major difference between what you're talking about and what my post discusses...and why this particular subject (in my post) is so potentially disruptive to the welfare of people around the globe.

    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

    by bobswern on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 01:04:49 PM PST

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    •  Well (0+ / 0-)

      there has been ETF in copper since 2010 that has been traded in London .

      Just forget about it, I can go on but I will just get attacked again.

      •  "Attacked?" You're saying my post was wrong. (0+ / 0-)

        I've provided you with a serious set of facts that--since you claim to be a professional--pretty much puts to rest your own claims, inasmuch as they definitely do not relate (in the real world) to what my post is about.

        (But, again, you do know this, too! Again, I'm assuming you are a professional trader.)

        So, if that's your definition of "attacked," I suggest you look up the word in the dictionary. And, while you're at it, checkout the definition for "disruptive," too.

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 01:25:13 PM PST

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        •  Like talking to a post (2+ / 0-)
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          bobswern, greenearth

          It seems that the belief that this or that new "investment" vehicle or trading strategy simplifies things to the point where the ordinary schmo or even a banker can now prudently speculate will never die.  Gee.  I guess we're on easy street from now on.  20 years of financial industry supervisory experience trumps reality every time.

          Life's lessons:  Bankers are greedy.  Bankers are idiots.
          However this particular baloney is being sliced, the banks in their greed will end by screwing things up and charging us for the favor.  They will of course market these ETF's to their customers as a "safe" way to play the commodities markets.  They will also take hedged positions AGAINST the interests of some of those same customers, just like they did with toxic mortgages.

          Allowing banks to participate directly in non-banking investment activities is a deal with the devil.

          Labor was the first price paid for all things. It was not by money, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased. - Adam Smith

          by boatwright on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 02:06:01 PM PST

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          •  Yes... (1+ / 0-)
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            ...but, the other Kossack put forth a rather disingenuous meme relating to trading that has little/nothing to do with the commodities trading we're talking about in this post, which is: ETF (or otherwise) trading by non-commercial interests, where the trader is taking physical possession of the commodity (i.e.: "non-commercial being folks NOT trading for a price hedge for their own businesses, which is the diametric opposite of entities such as: airlines buying fuel for their planes, large supermarket chains and processed/packaged goods food producers, farmers hedging their crops, oil companies, gas distributors, etc.--where they intend to take/provide physical possession/delivery of the commodity; and this is something that's done in the credit derivatives industry, too), or firms without legitimate commercial reasons, such as firms just looking to make a big buck by cornering the markets at the expense of the public, etc., etc.

            "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

            by bobswern on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 02:47:18 PM PST

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          •  This is exactly what I meant (0+ / 0-)

            personal attacks.

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