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View Diary: When do we stop burying our children and bury these bastards, instead? (355 comments)

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  •  If there wasn't harassment lawsuits too? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpunk, PavePusher, ER Doc, gerrilea

    Certainly.
    With one came the other.   See my comment higher in the thread.

    •  Why do you personally care? Have you ever been (4+ / 0-)

      named in one of these cases? Or do you reflexively jump in on the side of abused litigants like poor gun manufacturers?

      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

      by oldpotsmuggler on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 02:00:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I care when I see a perversion of justice. (6+ / 0-)

        I care when I get involved with the Innocence Project.
        I care when I'm told my health care will be $4000 more, as the cost of malpractice insurance is 400% of 5 years ago.
        I care when we're obfuscating tort actions, often done out of political frustration, with meaningful prosecutions.

        That MAIG, who I did not elect, is seen as a valid, Alternative Government, entitled to do as they damn well please.

        Yeah, I'm interested in this.  
        I'm interested in the how and why of a lot of things that don't sit well with me.
        Prevalence of High Fructose Corn Syrup in all sorts of foods. Monsanto being accorded both Personhood, Intellectual Property rights which trump all other rights, and a near protected religion status.
        Speaking of religion, what's up with the beatification of
        Saint Michael Bloomberg? Patron saint of beat-on OWS, Stop-and-Frisk, and champion of the AWB.

        •  What you're willing to overlook is that a law was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sethtriggs

          passed that makes it harder (even if, as you contend, only nominally so) to cut off the flow of firearms used in the commission of crimes. So that law actually strengthns the position of gun control advocates (sadly), because it increases the outrage factor against guns. And that has the potential to harm you personally.

          So you're arguing against your own interests, and it's just amazing to me that you can't understand that.

          Even if you only stick to the fights that should matter to a non-aligned gun hobbyist you'd have more than a full plate (not to mention the fact that you would not decrease your standing on Dkos.)

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 08:57:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  WTF? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        meagert, ER Doc, FrankRose, gerrilea

        So, no-one who hasn't been a victim of racism should care about racism.... Did I get that logic right?

        •  In a world of injustices, people pick their fights (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DefendOurConstitution

          it's curious to me that you would join in a fight on the side of the NRA. I mean, RKBA has absolutely nothing to lose by letting the NRA fight its own fights.

          And don't say that this has nothing to do with NRA, because it pays that millions and millions of dollars of lobbying fees that were used to swing the enactment of the statute that you are coming out in favor of.

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 08:49:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nice deflection. Try again. n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea
            •  Oh really. And if every rogue gun shop was put (0+ / 0-)

              out of business, you guys would be affected how?

              What you don't seem to fathom is that propaganda doesn't have to be false to be propaganda. Propaganda is a matter of packaging, timing, presentation and audience.

              So how RKBA came to be regurgitating NRA propaganda is of no concern to anyone here. What needs to be addressed is why you folks keep doing it, and keep demanding credence.

              There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

              by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:13:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I keep seeing claims to "rogue gun shops" (0+ / 0-)

                and "criminal gun shops" or accusations to that effect.... but so far no actual evidence of the gun shops breaking any laws has been offered.

                Unless you have a form of telepathy that you can devine the intent and actions of the shop owners and employees, all that can be determined is that the guns were originally retailed from certain shops.  Straw-purchases are quite easy and I see no particularly effective way to stop them.  Anyway, stopping criminals is, as is so often claimed on DK, the job of the police, not the Citizens.

                Since the RKBA group here, and the NRA, have some goals in common, they may occasionally "sound" similar.  But you'll find very few people here who give the NRA any support, and even those few are quite conditional.

                So repack your high horse, mount up and take up a sunset course.

                You could, of course, try citing to instances of our "regurgitating NRA propaganda", and debate each instance on its merits.

                I won't, however, hold my breathe.  In fact, I'm not even going to stay up any later.  Have a good night.

                •  The title of my next post here on DKos is going (0+ / 0-)

                  to be

                  "That sounds like an NRA talking point"

                  Watch for it. You should see yourself there. And, after that, if you still want to spew this mindless bullshit, we'll have at it.

                  And, oh, by the way, "debate each instance on its merits", that not only sounds like an NRA talking point, it is one.

                  There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                  by oldpotsmuggler on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:07:18 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Um, the total that the NRA pays pales in (0+ / 0-)

            comparison:

            http://www.opensecrets.org/...

            Total Lobbying Expenditures: $2,205,000
               Subtotal for Parent National Rifle Assn: $1,845,000
               Subtotal for Subsidiary NRA Institute for Legislative Action: $360,000


            To the total spent just this past election:
            http://www.opensecrets.org/...

            All House Races:     1707     $1,112,568,641
            All Senate Races:    251      $699,206,837
            President:            16        $1,357,487,680


            Grand Total: Over $3 Billion.

            Tell me again it's all about the NRA, would you please?!

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:47:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So your going to claim tht the NRA has no (0+ / 0-)

              political clout? Ain't that quaint!

              There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

              by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:04:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nope, the numbers speak for themselves. (0+ / 0-)

                Going after the NRA is a red herring meant to distract people from the true power-brokers in our system.

                As was mentioned elsewhere, they need us fighting each other, hating each other and chasing our own tails.

                The question is how do we stop the violence and do so constitutionally?

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:19:15 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Other RKBA people in this discussion concede that (0+ / 0-)

                  the statute in question was enacted because of NRA influence. In fact, if there is another person on the planet who agrees with your idea that the NRA is the one being picked on I would be way surprised.

                  There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                  by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:22:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Appeal to authority? Is this what you're employing (0+ / 0-)

                    along with misdirection?

                    It doesn't matter what other RKBA members say, really. We all agree on the Bill of Rights being equally protected. We all have varying opinions from liberal left to conservative right.

                    My whole point is that the NRA is meaningless in the big picture of politics in these United States.  Their chump change doesn't make a whole lotta difference to the true power-brokers that write and present the laws our paid public servants then dutifully pass.

                    The gun manufacturers got a bone thrown to them by that amendment.  It protected the information from being used in civil liability suits.  Just like the retroactive immunity the Telecoms got.  Just like HSBC got in their "settlement".  Just like the Banksters got in the mortgage fraud deal.  Just like the lobbying from the Prison Industrial Complex trying to get our government to agree to supplying them clientele to ensure their bottom line.

                    The NRA is a bit player in this game.  How many people have died from being forced into poverty by the policies this government enacts that protects the wealthiest among us?

                    Poverty kills 133,000 a year.

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

                    And note, that figure quoted is from 2000, and hasn't been updated in 13 yrs of unfunded wars of aggression and the continued de-industrialization of this nation which brought with it the defunding of our social safety nets.

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:51:56 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're weird. Or, really, incoherent. I mean, I'm (0+ / 0-)

                      trying but I don't have a clue what the fuck you're even saying.

                      Sorry!

                      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

                      by oldpotsmuggler on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:58:43 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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