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View Diary: AL teen's plans to kill African-American, gay students with explosives thwarted (107 comments)

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  •  He won't be walking the streets (31+ / 0-)

    According to the news report,

    There are several conditions to Shrout's bond: he cannot have any contact with anyone from Russell County High School under any circumstances. He is on house arrest and has to wear an ankle bracelet. He also has to be monitored when using the internet.
    I'm assuming that house arrest means that he's confined to his parents' house. I could be wrong about that.

    The report also said that his parents were prepared to post bond when the hearing concluded. Say a lot about the parents, imo. Not anything good.

    The parents apparently hired a lawyer who, predictably, claimed that this was just a misunderstanding.

    Yeah, sure.

    I assume that bond was allowed because the charge was attempted assault, not as serious as actual assault. At least the judge took steps to confine this hateful little creep. He isn't likely to be tried as an adult, unfortunately. But the federal hate crime act probably can be applied. My IANAL disclaimer applies.

    "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:42:45 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's still unnerving to have this guy out of jail (18+ / 0-)

      given the circumstances.

      The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

      by Christian Dem in NC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:48:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree ! (9+ / 0-)

        Unnerving, indeed.

        He even admitted that he's a white supremecist in court.

        IMO, this means that he has "friends" who are likely to support him. He may have been alone in his actions, but he's not alone in his hatred.

        The others are still free to roam the streets.

        "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

        by GrumpyOldGeek on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:00:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think this outrage is getting to be (8+ / 0-)

        unnerving.  The kid has not been convicted of anything yet.

        •  This isn't a courtroom (9+ / 0-)

          Evidence is pointing to this kid planning to kill seven people based on their race or sexual orientation. Yes, I'm outraged. If you're unnerved by that, feel free to find another diary.

          Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

          by Chrislove on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:57:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think that what he's been charged with (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RageKage, George Hier, aitchdee

            sounds horrible and outrage-worthy - that's not what I was talking about.

            It was the fact that people were outraged that he has posted bond and is under house arrest with an ankle bracelet - which seems like quite enough for someone who has yet to have even had a trial at this point.  But maybe you're a gitmo fan, who knows.  I'm not.

            •  Right. (10+ / 0-)

              Since I'm not a fan of a would-be mass murderer being freed on $75,000 bond no less, I must support Gitmo.

              Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

              by Chrislove on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:10:06 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not going to defend the kid, but (5+ / 0-)

                I will defend the basic tenets of the Constitution.  He has been accused of conspiracy to commit a crime (or something along those lines).  He has not been convicted, though.  

                It sounds like the police are taking this seriously.  I don't imagine that they are going to ignore his ankle bracelet monitor or allow him any leeway.

                •  Constitution only prohibits (7+ / 0-)

                  Excessive bail, and in some cases remand is not excessive.  I don't doubt that he'll be available for trial, but if a preponderance of the evidence suggests he's a threat, he can be held, as long as his trial is speedy per the 6th Amendment.  The point is, defend the Constitution all you want, it doesnt really sway the decision in this case.  Anyway, $75,000 bail is really $7,500, not necessarily cash, to a bail bondsman.  

                  Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                  by Loge on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 09:00:48 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  According to the news article you posted (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                aitchdee, inclusiveheart

                He has been charged with attempted assault, which means that people with more information on this than you have (the police and DA there) didn't find enough evidence to charge him with attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder.

                What we have here is a very demented and incredibly hateful 17-year old writing dangerous and scary things about what he wants/plans to do to some specific individuals. But the articles you have posted suggests that the accused did not even purchase the necessary ingredients to construct the bombs he had written about. Which to me is like a person writing shooting six specific people but not having a working gun. Yes, it's ugly, and yes, his mindset is insidious. But 17-year old kids are stupid and prone to irrational decisions. There's is a huge gap between "kid who wrote about his hateful murder plan/fantasy against specific people because of their race/sexual orientation" and "would-be mass murderer."

                This entire comments collection is proof positive of why our justice system - innocent until proven guilty - is a farce. Not because of the facts of this case. Those are pretty clear. But because it appears that people are willing to make assumptions about where those facts fit within the law.

                "I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil." ~Bobby Kennedy

                by Grizzard on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:36:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I was unnerved more because the bond was too low (5+ / 0-)

                  I'd have set it somewhere in six figures.

                  The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

                  by Christian Dem in NC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:49:56 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  As Christian Dem in NC indicates, (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Loge, MRA NY, Matt Z, Shotput8

                  I think you're misinterpreting the comments here. The concern is almost exclusively about the bail amount. This:

                  This entire comments collection is proof positive of why our justice system - innocent until proven guilty - is a farce.
                  is kind of extreme considering the complaints being made. I don't think they're at all unreasonable or at odds with the Constitution.

                  Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

                  by Chrislove on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:56:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Sorry... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Chrislove

                  but until a psychiatric examination and evaluation is entered into evidence that concludes he is demented I am not buying that... If this were a black kid plotting to kill 6 white students there would be no presumption of mental illness... and there would be scant, if any, compassion. The argument would have been made that for his safety that he would be held over until trial... and the duly appointed local lynch mob would be making damn sure he is found guilty by holding the possibility of their taking matters into their own hands to do what the state could or would not do over the prosecutor's head like the sword of Damocles...

                  Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

                  by awesumtenor on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:34:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  It also suggests that law enforcement (0+ / 0-)

              considers the threat was very credible, and dangerous.

              Am glad he is at least "confined" to his home --- which probably has not much in common with Gitmo.

            •  because nobody ever (0+ / 0-)

              does anything to violate their bond while wearing one of those...

              Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

              by awesumtenor on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:24:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  No (9+ / 0-)

            it's not. But the decision on bail WAS decided in a court room, and the "outrage" here seems to want the rules of that court room thrown out the door in the name of a culture where people are guilty once accused until proven innocent.

            Do you really think it is unusual for a 17-year old with no record being charged with attempted assault to be released with high bail and very strict conditions? He's not been convicted of a crime yet, and regardless of how much you want it to be, he has the right to a trial.

            I understand that this attempted crime is especially emotionally charged for you, and rightfully so. But you don't get to throw the rules out just because one particular alleged crime strikes you as more heinous than others. From what I can gather, the kid is pretty sour and hateful, and he diaried his plans to do some very horrible things. But our justice system assumes his innocence until the state can prove his guilt, and a part of that is not holding a person indefinitely unless that person presents a threat to others or a flight risk. And in a world where accused murderers (people who did far more than write about their plans to kill someone) get out on bail with conditions, it's not at all unusual for a person in this guy's situation to get out.

            The person who responded to you is unnerved because many of the comments here reflect one of the most horrible aspects of our justice system - the fact that NO ONE gets a fair trial because pretty much all criminals are assumed guilty. And the person responding to you is unnerved because among a political base that purports to support basic rights, many commenting here are willing to throw out those rights as soon as a person is accused of doing something to harm one of the sub-sets of individuals that our community protects.

            It's possible to do both - show outrage that a kid in Alabama is so hateful that he took steps to plan a horrible act against black students and a gay student while also recognizing the rights of the accused to not be condemned before the state proves its case.

            HTH.

            "I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil." ~Bobby Kennedy

            by Grizzard on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:28:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nobody is even expressing "outrage" (8+ / 0-)

              as far as I can see. What I see are commenters who are unnerved by and expressing concern about the fact that a person who plotted something this heinous got out of jail on $75,000 bond. Yes, there are conditions, and that's good, but the idea of him getting out that easily is a matter of concern for some here. My concern, and I suspect the concern of others here, doesn't result simply from the fact that members of the African American and gay communities were targeted. Since he's on house arrest, I'm not particularly concerned that he'll pose a threat to others, but I don't think any comment here has been unreasonable--and certainly, nobody has suggested he be placed in Gitmo.

              I write about hate crimes on a semi-regular basis, and I am quite used to people coming to my diaries and making sure everybody knows that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. So pardon the immediate and perhaps harsh reaction on my part. I think most here understand that the accused are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in the justice system. I don't think any comment here seeks to deny the right to a fair trial as guaranteed by the Constitution.

              Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

              by Chrislove on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:50:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That was my concern too (6+ / 0-)

                $75,000 is way, way too low, considering the ramifications.

                The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

                by Christian Dem in NC on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:51:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And I am concerned about the kids on his hit list (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Laconic Lib, Chrislove

                  the trauma and fear they are going through knowing they were on the list. As I assume the police probably informed these kids and their parents about it. The kids may worry that racists who support this kid will come after them or target them or harrass them. As i think this case will make national news especially in light of recent school violence. These kids may worry that they will be harrassed by perfect strangers who are racist sympathizers and haters or nut cases.

                  I worry more about the kids on that list and what they are going through emotionally, that must be awful for them.

                  Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

                  by wishingwell on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:23:09 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Agreed (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Chrislove, Matt Z, Laconic Lib

                Yes, we believe in innocent until proven guilty. It's just that $75,000 seems like an extremely low bail, given how many people are given extremely large bails or are denied bail outright.

                The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

                by A Citizen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 08:32:28 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  State laws often establish bail rules and maximums (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laconic Lib

                For a charge of attempted assault, I bet $75,000 is about as high a bail amount as permitted by law, especially for a juvenile. The court was wise to order house arrest and a restraining order.

                The investigation is still underway and it's gotten a little national exposure. Maybe additional charges can be justified. I would think that the focus is on his white supremacist schoolmates and a possible conspiracy or accessory investigation.

                This is in the hands of the investigators and the prosecutors now. I hope they can build a strong case. The defense claim is very weak.

                "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

                by GrumpyOldGeek on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 10:31:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  You know how I feel about the Criminal Justice (5+ / 0-)

              system.

              I find it curious however that this young white man gets what is essentially a 7,500 bond and is home with an ankle bracelet, when kids I know are in lockup with no bail. But then they are black and puerto rican and not privileged.

              If the video above has any truth to it (my distrust of police and news reports is showing) and he had cans full of shrapnel at home I would have expected him to have a much higher bail or no bail.

              Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

              by Denise Oliver Velez on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 11:30:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's highly likely that (8+ / 0-)

      the sick, twisted mindset that informed this kid's plotted hate crime was fostered by his parents' own bigotry.

      That having been said, I would draw no conclusions solely from the fact that they posted bond for their boy. As the father of two young adult sons, I know that my first instinct would be to protect them to my fullest capacity, no matter what they'd been accused of. This is just human nature.

      Wear it proud. Wear it loud. Outlaw concealed carry. That gun hidden under your coat won't deter shit.

      by WisePiper on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 07:25:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wonder who is doing the monitoring? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell
      He also has to be monitored when using the internet.
      They might actually develop additonal evidence from any online activity?

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