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View Diary: James Dobson goes crazy. Is this all the movement can offer? (172 comments)

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  •  I wonder what your teens say about abortion (0+ / 0-)

    and the moral judgement of it. What would they do if confronted with a  gang rape and how they would regard the victim.

    •  Not sure what that has to do with defining.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      qofdisks

      ...McCarthyism, but here goes...
      I asked and they say abortion is something all women should have access to if they need it. The morality of it is not their concern. Neither is judgement. Those things are up to the individual making the decision. They also say that rape is a crime whether it's committed individually or in groups, and the victim IS a victim. The only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.  And FWIW, they're both boys and they know perfectly well what the word "No" means.

      •  I and 13 year olds about 5 boys worked around a (0+ / 0-)

        fire in the snow last Saturday burning weeds.
        I asked about abortion.  To a man, they were adamantly against it even my own son.  (I am rabidly pro-choice and consider reproductive control by any means as moral.)  Specifically, they were against it as a personal choice for their own girlfriends should an unplanned pregnancy occur.
        I think that just saying that it is the choice of the woman is different than considering it in your own personal case.  Ask about their personal morality regarding abortion.  I found that the boys truly think that the fetus embodies "person hood".
        I lost hope that abortion will be accessible to most American women by the time these boys become adults.

        As for the rape, I also got the same response as yours.  But, delving a bit deeper about their personal actions faced with a pack of dogs (men), we had to talk some more.  Right off the bat, one boy exclaimed that he would rape.
        Under pressure from his peers, he thought about it again.
        Their first reaction was to engage in violence to save the girl.  After, that all died down, we began to talk about a proper reaction in earnest.
        The consensus was for a boy to simply walk/drive away out of sight of the dog pack and make an anonymous call to the police to come save the girl.
        We always call a group of boys or gang mis-behavior a pack of dogs or dog pack.  That is because if you have one or more dogs roaming into a chicken yard, if one starts killing, they all start killing.  Dog packs follow the alpha dog and is characterized as acting without thought.
        Upon further discussion of gang rape, it took some correction and persuasion on my part to make them realize that no woman no matter her status "deserves" rape.  They were less morally clear with regards to a "bad" girl and were a bit more ambiguous about even partaking in the rape.
        Upon discussion of military rape, they were incredulous about the dreadful statistics.  They were somber and silent about the fact that not one man has testified on behalf of a rape victim in the military.  I asked about the prospect of testimony in a court of law on behalf of a victim of gang rape.  What if their friend were involved?  We were at a quandary.  
        I hope that the boys will think about these issues going forward.
        These boys are already encountering peers "hitting" their girlfriends.  Some of the boys have witnessed domestic violence in their own homes.  They were all against it and were even planing an assault on another boy known to physically abuse one of their female classmates.  I reminded them that assault is illegal.  I got them to back off their notions of violence as a solution to this problem.  I came away from this part of the discussion knowing that they would apply peer pressure and social humiliation and general disapproval of violence against women.
         

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