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View Diary: New German Data Shows No End in Sight for Coal (230 comments)

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  •  That would be bad thinking on the part (0+ / 0-)

    of the Germans then. The oversight of the Fukushima plant was plagued by corruption and the unfortunate hierarchy system in Japan. Those things don't really apply in Germany. The problem in Fukushima was based, so I understand, on poor planning for generator placement, probably to save money, and a much bigger tsunami than anyone in Japan predicted. But Germany is not in a seismically active zone. So I don't see how any responsible German planner could conclude that, if it happened in Japan, it could happen in Germany. Merkel made the decision she did because it was good for her politically not because it made scientific sense.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:42:36 PM PST

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    •  None of that matters if 90 percent of the (0+ / 0-)

      population prefers renewable energy over nuclear energy. We'll see if it was "bad thinking" or not in about 10 or 20 years, doubtful it will play out earlier than that. The critical year will be 2024, by which time the rest of the nuclear power plants will have been phased out

      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

      by translatorpro on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:55:38 PM PST

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      •  That wasn't the argument (0+ / 0-)

        I was commenting on. The point I was referring to was the assertion that Merkel the Engineer made the decision she did on the basis of sound logic, when she didn't. As you just pointed out, she did so because the voters like it a lot and the tsunami on the other side of the earth scared them. Merkel is good at exploiting public fear, like a lot of uninspiring politicians. Glad to see you agree with me.

        The bottom line is that Germany is burning more coal. As long as that's the case, it doesn't really matter what else they do.

        For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

        by Anne Elk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 02:10:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My point is you are passing judgement based (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          splashy

          on the wrong assumptions. And Merkel did not make the decision alone - remember, the CDU is the CONSERVATIVE party in coalition with first the SPD, and then later the FDP. The tsunami per se did not "scare them", the thinking is much more complicated than that. You don't appear to understand that the German mentality cannot be compared to the American one, and that one cannot use an American yardstick to judge another culture - it doesn't work and will always be skewed. That's the nature of cultural differences, and one reason there are wars. Your set of expectations and approach to getting something done are different from theirs. In addition, you are simplifying facts and ignoring others, which is quite an American thing, not a German one. The topic is much more complex than you are able to fathom, it appears.
          In a nutshell: The diarist used ONE year of statistics, and Rei and Lawrence and a few others point out that the diarist left out a lot of other facts from the SAME link the diarist posted, which would be salient to his point and change the picture, something like taking one piece of a 1000-piece puzzle and drawing conclusions about the end product without knowing what the finished puzzle looks like.

          This -->  http://www.dailykos.com/...

          „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

          by translatorpro on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 02:51:27 PM PST

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          •  OK. I give up! (0+ / 0-)

            I clearly know nothing about German politics!

            For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

            by Anne Elk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:40:21 PM PST

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    •  You think there's no corruption in the Big Energy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      translatorpro, splashy

      Business in Germany?  Seriously??!  German nuke plants have been plagued by problems, just as they have been in other countries.  Furthermore, with each year of age a nuke plant becomes riskier.  Metals corrode, concrete gets brittle, rubber becomes porous, instruments become outdated with age.

      Germany may not be in a normally seismically active zone, but its nuclear plants are just as vulnerable to freak accidents as others around the world.  An A380 crashing into a nuke plant would be one such freak event, and there are others.

      Furthermore, Germany is a geographically small country and has not found a safe place for permanently storing nuclear waste.... so why on earth would they want to continue creating highly radioactive nuclear waste when they already have no place to store it?

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 03:33:00 PM PST

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      •  Exactly, and one thing they were deeply concerned (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence, splashy

        about was potential terrorist attacks on nuclear plants, which the German government felt they could never be able to prevent with 100% certainty, even 99.9999% wouldn't be worth the risk to them. Odd, the pro-nuclear contingent never mentions that scenario...

        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

        by translatorpro on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 03:49:54 PM PST

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    •  And in any case, you didn't read my comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      splashy

      correctly. The pro-nuclear folks claim the German population was afraid of a tsunam/earthquake in Japan possibly occuring in Germany, which is absurd, of course. They only say that to mock and belittle them. And "no responsible planner" (your words) ever thought any such thing. Where on earth did you get such a notion? Do the producers of BMW, Mercedes and many fine precision instruments and products strike you as being irrational cry-babies? I point out below that apart from a possible freak (natural) accident, the bigger problem is a potential terrorist attack, which is a very real issue there. http://www.google.de/...

      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

      by translatorpro on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 04:46:34 PM PST

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