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View Diary: Why marriage equality is going to win (43 comments)

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  •  Tipped, but (11+ / 0-)

    with the express proviso that some of us have little desire to join 'mainstream' culture. Instead, just personally, I'd like to redefine 'mainstream'.

    They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

    by MBNYC on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:11:09 AM PST

    •  I was going to say something similar (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MBNYC, kyril, blueoasis, outragedinSF

      Or to be more precise, the process of inclusion is a reciprocal one.

      I believe that the original intent of the gay liberation movement was not assimilation so much as it was the embrace of diversity.

      I came out in the mid-70's when things had already begun to shift. Many (though by no means all) of my friends--back then and now--wanted nothing more than to obtain a conventional middle-class existence, white picket fence included, only with a same-sex partner rather than an opposite sex partner. And the occasional time out for a bit of extra-curricular fun and frolic.

      •  And that's perfectly fine. (5+ / 0-)

        But did we really all come out just to copy mom and dad's way of living? If people want that, fine, but it's not for everyone.

        They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

        by MBNYC on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 11:31:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well that's it (5+ / 0-)

          It isn't for everyone. No single way of life is. The biggest pitfall of the liberation movement was the implicit trap of enforced nonconformity. We often forget that the freedom to chose--which to me seems like the most authentic  message of the gay liberation movement--includes the freedom to choose to be utterly conventional. If that is what one is. It also includes to the freedom to occupy any spot on the continuum from the very middle of the road to the outer fringes.

          •  Better then enforced *conformity*. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            At least you've got a choice then.  

            I mean, come on--everybody's "freely choosing to be utterly conventional (by whose standards, BTW?  Ronald Reagan's?) these days.  

            Well, OK, I'm seeing some movement away IF I really look for it.  But damn, it's been a long time.  Now even if my dream world comes about tomorrow I'll be too old to take advantage of it because all the Neo-Square gays insisting on the "right to be conventional" took over the scene for so long that hardly anyone can imagine anything different any more.  

            In short, this hasn't been a valid complaint for decades, but people are still acting as if it was and they're not looking at what's really happened.

            The '60s were simply an attempt to get the 21st Century started early....Well, what are we waiting for? There's no deadline on a dream!

            by Panurge on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:17:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think that's what I've learned the most from the (0+ / 0-)

      comments. Some LGBTs want to "integrate." Some do not. And it is "mainstream" society's job to let them integrate--or not--at their choosing.

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