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View Diary: Abbreviated pundit roundup: Giffords and Kelly launch group to take on the NRA (60 comments)

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  •  One issue with the NRA is the general, larger (11+ / 0-)

    issue of lobbyists and their relatively unchecked power.

    They are sort of an unsung  support service for "He who has the gold makes the Rules". He who has the gold to pay the lobbyists makes the rules.

    I have always heard that 'lobbying is free speech" but it seems we'd have a better country if we didn't have an entire sub-population of highly paid lobbyists who exist to thwart changes that might actually help the common man.

    The Forces of Good are cash-poor.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:51:19 AM PST

    •  Dry up the money. (5+ / 0-)

      If you believe in common sense measures like closing the Gun show loophole then burn your NRA card.......

      As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

      by JML9999 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:54:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have been advised that "gun show loophole" (7+ / 0-)

        is a rightwing framing trick and that the real issue is 'private sales" - how to regulate private citizens selling their weapons.

        I fell for this and - because I am not a gun owner - I never knew there weren't some sort of rules for private transfer of weapons.

        The 'upshot' is that by calling it one thing that it really isn't, everybody barks up the wrong tree.

        The right tree - on this specific issue - is regulation of private sales and transfers.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:57:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can't track private citizen sales/exchanges... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare, xxdr zombiexx, megisi

          ...without registration. And yes, that includes inheriting granddad's (or grandma's) flintlock that has been in the family for generations.

          Whether it is federal or something that mimics the mutual recognition agreement among states regarding vehicular registration, I really don't care. But some universal registration has to be the foundation of any meaningful weapon safety program/policy.

          When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

          by Egalitare on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:19:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And even if you had a registration (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xxdr zombiexx

            that tracked the legal civilian purchases, the criminals and lunatics would still engage in a black market trading that is and would remain outside of the registration.  It is important to remember that laws will only bind the law abiding.  Laws will not control criminal behavior.

            •  laws will, in fact, support the escalation (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Egalitare, noway2

              of criminal enterprises, pretty much overnight.

              But what we have learned from the war on drugs is that all the deaths surrounding the policy are acceptable.

              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

              by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:32:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Speaking of the war on drugs .... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                xxdr zombiexx

                The two states, Colorado and Washington that recently passed recreational marijuana use laws give some potential insight into what might happen with federal gun laws that are highly unpopular in certain states.

                As it stands those two states have effectively said that they are not going to enforce federal laws.  This has been playing out in interesting ways as both sates currently have a network of medical MJ dispensaries.  Due to the federal regulations, the dispensaries have a hard time getting something as simple as a bank account.  Also, the lack of federal enforcement has created a possibly tough legal precedent that may have carry over effects into other areas.

                With regards to the "war on drugs" prohibition, your right, outlawing something just drives it underground and creates an expensive (in multiple ways) enterprise to fund it.  Just like alcohol prohibition did.

                •  The US government is fully capable (0+ / 0-)

                  of making a for-profit venture out of alcohol prohibition, just as they have done with marijuana prohibition.

                  Plus illegal alcohol will help fill the private prisons Americans are comfortable with.

                  The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                  by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:37:58 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I have to register my car and quickly (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Egalitare

            or I get in trouble.

            Unsure why gun registration isn't as ubiquitous as vehicle registry. NRA lobbyists, most likely.

            That seems kind of basic.

            I do not buy the 'slippery slope' of 'registration = confiscation'. I don't think guns are going to be confiscated but I think people are going to have to jump through a couple more hoops to obtain them. If the government wanted to ban guns, they'd simply do it. Look at marijuana. They would and do blow tens of billions of dollars a year to ban a weed.

            I think the domino theory isn't valid.

            People can register their guns. I mean, if I would finally choose to buy a handgun, I would have zero objection to registering it. It's no skin off my ass.

            Shit, I have to get fingerprinted and have a 10 year criminal history search just to have a job working with the mentally ill (I'm squeaky clean). People CAN tolerate a bit of scrutiny when buying a gun.....

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:31:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  The "gun show loophole" is basically a problem (0+ / 0-)

          with tracking sales and enforcing laws.  Only licensed dealers can legally be accepted as gun show vendors.  Until gun dealers of all types are required to do serious background checks using a database that is current and includes such information as mental health adjudications, number and dates of previous firearms purchases and criminal backgrounds, and corresponding laws are tightened on gun sales and waiting periods, gun shows don't present any worse threat than any other sales outlet.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:47:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  See my post below about ME being considered (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JML9999

        part of the NRA.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:57:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I did actually (3+ / 0-)

          I was speaking generally not to you specifically. The Royal You as it were.

          "If one believes in common sense measures like closing the Gun show loophole then burn your NRA card." Sounded kinda weird

          As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

          by JML9999 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:01:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No problemo. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JML9999

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:03:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The "gun show loophole" is made up to scare you (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xxdr zombiexx

            The term "gun show loophole" is made up by the media and is designed to scare you.  It is then propagated and bolstered through the use of half-truths.  What does come into play are the state laws, which naturally vary by state.  Firstly, any sale that goes through a licensed dealer, in other words an FFL, must be verified through the NICS check.  The same thing applies to dealers at gun shows.  What some states allow, including my state, North Carolina, are private or face-to-face sales.  While I can't speak for every state, my states still requires either a purchase permit or a concealed carry license, both of which are indicative of having a proven background check by the county sheriff's office.  If citizens are willing to disregard the laws and engage in illegal black market trading, no additional laws are going to prevent their actions.

            With regards to online purchases, it is NOT the SELLERS responsibility to perform the background check.  The seller is only permitted to ship the weapon to a licensed FFL, who is then responsible for performing the background check before releasing the item to the purchaser.  The idea that online sales are devoid of background checks is FALSE!
             

      •  My grandfather was a lifelong NRA member (10+ / 0-)

        He joined millenia ago when they were an organization dedicated to promoting gun safety and legitimate sportsmanship. In the 80s/90s time frame when they became an organization that promoted gun makers profits over sportsmen and innocent lives, he tore up his membership and never looked back.

      •  Most of the NRA money (9+ / 0-)

        comes from manufacturers, not run of the mill gun owners.
        When the NRA plays "fear monger" and sells more guns, manufacturers share the profits.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 05:02:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  NOTE: (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, skohayes, FrankRose, tb mare

      Some may twist this post to suggest that I am an NRA supporter (I don't know HOW these geniuses manage do that but many already have) but that just means they're a dumbass.

      Just FYI.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 04:54:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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