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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: Newtown, Chuck Hagel and Republican infighting (125 comments)

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  •  Quite the contrary. (11+ / 0-)

    But in order to have a discussion, we first need to agree that one is warranted and possible. It's not a zero-sum game between individual rights and collective security, rather, it's a balancing act between the two.

    Personally, I know how to shoot a gun, quite accurately even, but I also don't want to live in a world where this skill is required for my or anyone's safety.

    They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

    by MBNYC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 04:44:45 AM PST

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    •  Ah!! I love your last statement. (0+ / 0-)

      Will you concede that it means more than regulating guns?

      Tragically showy events like Aurora and Newtown obscure the fact that the gun violence problem in America is not about assault weapons and mass shootings.  The overwhelming majority of shooting deaths -- even if you filter out suicides -- are committed with more mundane weapons against more mundane numbers.

      We are a society where people kill each other.
      That is a problem.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 06:46:50 AM PST

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      •  No. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        belle1, thomask
        Tragically showy events like Aurora and Newtown obscure the fact that the gun violence problem in America is not about assault weapons and mass shootings.
        The problem is exactly mass shootings and the weapons used to commit them. And quite a few people, myself included, will have that discussion no matter how many look-over-there distractions are thrown in our way.

        They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

        by MBNYC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:27:01 AM PST

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        •  You really don't care about the kids who are (0+ / 0-)

          killed one and two at a time?

          That's the vast majority of killings in our country.

          In Chicagoland, we are inundated by the tragic stories of kids shot on the way home from school, sitting on the porch, etc.

          Those are mostly black and brown kids.
          Is that the difference?

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:32:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  not either-or (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MBNYC, thomask, Dezza, dinotrac, glitterscale

            both

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:41:30 AM PST

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          •  Oh, nice. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dezza
            You really don't care about the kids who are (0+ / 0-)
            killed one and two at a time?
            Classic false-choice argument; I don't buy your distraction, hence, I must not care about dead children of color and/or less 'spectacular' murders.

            What a load of self-serving, offensive offal.

            They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

            by MBNYC on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:48:08 AM PST

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            •  You are the one who said it. (0+ / 0-)

              When I said we should care about the kids who get killed 1 and 2 at a time, you responded

              No.
              The problem is exactly mass shootings and the weapons used to commit them.
              Tell me some reasonable interpretation of your statements that doesn't:

              1. Require you to be an idiot incapable of recognizing the logical consequences of your position

              Not acceptable because you almost certainly not an idiot.

              2.  Require you to make unthinking knee-jerk arguments

              Acceptable because we all do that sometimes

              3. Require you not to care about most of the people who get killed by guns because they are not like you or yours.

              Also acceptable because we tend to be blind to our own hypocracies and prejudices.

              Have I missed one?

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:57:01 AM PST

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              •  I think Greg Dworkin has it right (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dinotrac

                We need to deal with both issues and quit hiding behind the constitutional thing. We regulate cars and drivers and bars and intoxicating substances and now even tobacco. We don't need to see any more children killed by guns.

                So I am all in favor of levying an outrageous tax on bullets, guns and gun paraphernalia, allowing gun manufacturers to face civil suits, restrictions on who can buy, what they can buy and how they are to maintain said firearms and what courses they have to take before ownership. AND turning the CDC loose on the problem and opening up statistics to the world.

                American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

                by glitterscale on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:02:26 AM PST

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                •  I would like to go deeper than that, though. (0+ / 0-)

                  Those things would save lives.
                  Those things would make well-meaning people feel better.
                  Those things would not address most of the problem, nor prevent most of the deaths.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 02:07:47 PM PST

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                  •  I truly believe that we could change things (0+ / 0-)

                    over time with a comprehensive plan of
                    1)educating gun owners and giving them information about safety, gun locks, and gun safes
                    2)keeping ammo down to reasonable limits
                    3)keeping guns confined to those who pass a test showing they understand how to use the firearms safely and having insurance on those weapons for possible misuse and abuse (insurance companies are far greater sticklers for also insuring that those they insure have gun safes and gun locks)
                    4)Truly letting the CDC do its job regarding firearm deaths. We have a truly sterling air traffic safety record and it is time to have something close to that with firearm safety.
                    5)Putting gun manufacturers on notice: NO MORE FLOODING THE MARKETS! And allowing civil suits against them for wrongful deaths. And allowing the ATF to do its job.
                    6)And yes, up taxes on the stuff to pay for the regs and such.

                    American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

                    by glitterscale on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 04:21:47 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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