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View Diary: Germany now has 1.3 million solar energy systems which generated 28 billion kilowatt hours in 2012 (139 comments)

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  •  No, the bottom line is that Germany managed to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    translatorpro, IM, adrianrf

    actually decrease their fossil fuel usage for electricity production over the last ten years despite shutting down 10 nuclear power plants and having sub-optimal renewables resources.

    The bottom line also is that their carbon emissions have been steadily falling over the last ten years.

    And the massive foundation of the entire bottom line is that Germany, with their herculean effort, have caused such a strong drop in the price of renewables that it is now the most rapidly growing form of new power production globally,  ie. their efforts at switching to renewables have led to a rapid acceleration of renewables globally, which is the only damn thing that can save us from going over a global warming cliff.

    As I've said before, I'm looking at the forest while you're refusing to look at anything other than a stand of trees.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:26:25 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's absolutely not true (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Capt Morgan, BYw

      what Germany apparently did do was meet NEW demand, and demand created by the shutdown of some of the nuclear power plants, with renewable energy.  As a result, the PERCENTAGE of electricity generated by fossil fuels went down.

      The actual amount - in Twh - of electricity generated by fossil fuels remained level throughout the decade, however.  Thus, carbon emissions have not been falling over this time period, no matter how often you say they are.

      In fact, considering that the same amount of electricity is being generated from fossil fuels in 2012 as the decade average, the recent shift from natural gas to coal suggests that carbon emissions are in fact rising, perhaps dramatically:

      Coal-fired electric power generation puts out about twice the amount of carbon dioxide — around 2,000 pounds for every megawatt hour generated — than electricity generated by burning natural gas
      •  Man, you are obtuse. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roger Fox, translatorpro, IM, adrianrf


        comparing with a decadal average, very obviously is not the same as comparing what it was at the start of the decade to what it was at the end of the decade.

        And, as I've said before, the recent shift from natural gas to coal has to do with the fact that German Big Energy companies are greedy and want to make more money by using coal that is, ironically, now cheaper due to the natural gas boom in the U.S.

        Total CO2 emissions in Germany have declined by about 10% since the turn of the Millennium, so maybe you should go find some other country to rag on.

        Maybe you could go rag on China, since their increase in CO2 emissions in just 1 year was virtually as large as Germany's entire CO2 emissions....

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 06:14:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  LCOE new construction nat gas vs coal in US (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, translatorpro

          From 2009, wind is much cheaper is a Berkeley nat lab study from 2011, but yes nat gas is way the hell cheaper. SO if a utility is selling electricity for 18 cents, the utility wants the larger margin, which they can get from nat gas.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 06:22:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And the drop in production of electricity from (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roger Fox, translatorpro, adrianrf

            coal in the U.S. has caused coal prices to drop in Europe, which has led to increases in electricity production from coal in Europe.

            We're all interconnected and utility companies are greedy everywhere.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 06:29:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  That comparison is EXACTLY what (0+ / 0-)

          you asked me to do over in the other diary when you thought the numbers would break in your favor when they were calculated that way.

          When that turned out not to be the case, you call me obtuse.

          WTF? I was just doing exactly what YOU suggested.

          And thanks for again changing the discussion in midstream, this discussion was never about "total CO2 emissions" - it was about CO2 emissions from the generation of electricity.

          but whatever, if you keep trying hard enough, I'm sure you'll convince at least yourself that you are correct about * something *  - yay!!

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