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  •  Pass-ability aside, how could that work for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon, oldpunk, PavePusher

    private sales? Gov agencies and businesses have an incentive to not game the system, but could we really allow private citizens access to such an important database?

    I see what you did there.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:10:24 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I presume the incentive... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mamamedusa, oldpunk

      ...would be to avoid prosecution.  Anyone selling a weapon would have to report to the government that the particular weapon was sold to a particular person.  That buyer would then become the individual responsible for that weapon.

      I think if it was possible to magically remove the question of confiscation from the equation, most gun owners would be fine with registration.

      •  Bill W - the purchase of a gun from a retailer (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bill W, mahakali overdrive

        is recorded.

        If that gun, say... purchased in Georgia, is recovered in NJ or NY, then it's a matter of contacting the Maker or Importer.

        "Hello, Smith & Wesson?  Who did gun #xxx-xxxxx get sold to?  Guns South?  Thank you."

        "Hello Guns South?  Who did S&W Sigma s/n #xxx-xxxxx get sold to?  Darryl's Sporting Goods?  Thank you."

        That results in two ATF Agents going to Darryl's.
        "We need to see the records on this S&W Sigma."

        Sold To:
        Name: Clarence Thomas
        Address:  1234 Magnolia, Hotlanta, GA
        Age: 24
        ID:  GA Drivers #xxxxxxxxxxx

        You then go pick Mr. Thomas up, and upon investigation, eventually charge him with Felony trafficking... particularly if Mr. Thomas is on two or more firearms records, leading to guns recovered in NY or NJ.

        "Have you been to New York or New Jersey?"
        Nope.
        "Do you have these guns anymore"
        Nuh-uh.
        "What happened to them?"
        Dunno.

        Which is good enough to charge him with Obstruction, and hold him over. Dot a few t's, cross a few eyes, and you make a case for a straw buyer, perhaps getting the name of the runner, and reel the network up.

        Mr. Thomas "registering" that gun, would eliminate a call to S&W, and to Guns South.  Not the best chain-of-evidence if you're heading for a conviction.

        The store visit, to obtain a true copy of the Form 4473 is evidentiary, whereas a database result is corroborative.

        •  If that is the case... (0+ / 0-)

          ...that such sales records are preserved indefinitely, why does it seem that so few investigations / prosecutions such as you describe occur?  Or do they occur and we don't hear about it?

          •  I would guess funding for one. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            43north, Bill W

            I've also heard that there are less firearm related federal prosecutions going on right now, but I don't know why.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 06:21:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Bill, gun convictions are often (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bill W

            what's pled-to, instead of say "attempted murder".
            Manhattan DA Robert Morgenthau was famous for this.
            Two young men shooting up a playground comes to trial, and it's a matter of who started what first, to prove homicidal intent, vs. illegally shooting in self-defense.

            The DA would accept a plea to the gun charge, 366 days in Ossining (Sing Sing Prison) where your friends are, and family can easily visit from the city.

            It's yet another "felony conviction" but it was cheap seats compared to going for the actual crime - attempted murder, which should be a 10 year or greater sentence.

            At the Federal level, I'm willing to bet this is viewed as a "flippable" offense.  Gun purchases, gun running, is a part of a larger Drug$ and Gang$ initiative.  That's where the money and interest is, that's where careers are made.

            That's where both the Bush admin "Wide Receiver" and Obama admin "Fast & Furious" gun walking "sting operation" went wrong.  
            "We'll let this go... and it will lead us to someone who's conviction is a headline career-maker."

            Give up a large player in either or both areas of interest, and this pesky Federal straw purchase Felony can go away.
            You might even see witness protection and a new start on life.
            A reward for violating firearms law.

    •  all sales thru a fed licensed dealer (5+ / 0-)

      you as the seller are out of it, almost like a consignment sale, I'd assume the cost would be 40-175$, adding to the financial burden of poorer people purchasing for self defense and incentivising illegal 'workarounds.

         Exemption for antique and low capacity sporting arms sold thru family connections, but we're all cousins anyway...

      but not in favor of registrations.

      Irony of gun resellers like that Arizona store making more money for handling private sales is not lost on me either.

      This machine kills Fascists.

      by KenBee on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:15:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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