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View Diary: 'Grown-ups don't mint trillion dollar coins' and other childhood fantasies (224 comments)

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  •  Although this reeks of combatting silliness (10+ / 0-)

    with even sillier ideas, this appears to be the only viable option keeping the recalcitrant and childish Republicans in the House from ruining the economy, which is not very robust at the moment.

    -9.88, -7.44 Social Security as is will be solvent until 2037, and the measures required to extend solvency beyond that are minor. -- Joe Conanson

    by wordene on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:12:00 AM PST

    •  The economy is on the precipice of ruin because (0+ / 0-)

      health care and its projected costs which congressional democrats failed to address by punting on single payer option. All of congress shares the blame.

      "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

      by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:24:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree with your premise here (8+ / 0-)

        Healthcare costs, while definitely out of control (mostly due to the for-profit players in the marketplace, but that is an argument outside the point I am trying for here), are not the main issue.  It is the out-of-control spending on the Military which is the source of the problem.  Yes, Democrats (and Obama) are to blame for not getting Single Payer in place, but the economy is hurting not because of spending but because of the austerity measures desired by the Republicans.

        -9.88, -7.44 Social Security as is will be solvent until 2037, and the measures required to extend solvency beyond that are minor. -- Joe Conanson

        by wordene on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:47:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Health Care, President Obama jumped on a run (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim, charliehall2

        away train.  GOP took away as many brakes as they could, they are trying to take away all the brakes and blame the run away train on President Obama.

        Please look at heath care costs' increase for the last 40 years.

      •  Gah!!!! (4+ / 0-)

        Stop with this insanity.  You tell me now step by fucking step, vote by fucking vote, just how Obama and the Democrats could have gotten through single-payer health care with the numbers we had a the time.  Your contention is not only false but it borders on insane and completely out of touch with reality.  

        Fact:  While we had the votes in the House, we had Joe Lieberman as one of "our" Senators who showed his true colors and voted almost entirely with Republicans.  We had numerous Blue Dog Dems who barely allowed passage of the bill as it is, wanting all kinds of weakening to even consider it.  Al Francken's election was in limbo and he wasn't part of the numbers until well after the issue of single-payer had been reluctantly taken off the table.  Prior to Ted Kennedy's death, there was a short period of time where it appeared we had the supermajority to get things through but Lieberman was still in that total along with the Blue Dogs.  

        There was no punt.  IT COULDN'T HAPPEN WITH THE NUMBERS WE HAD.  THE ENTIRE BILL WOULD HAVE GONE DOWN IF IT HAD BEEN WRITTEN THAT WAY AND WE'D BE WAITING ANOTHER DECADE FOR ANOTHER SHOT AT ANY HEALTH CARE REFORM.

        Sorry for the shouting but this bullshit is getting old.

        "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

        by artmartin on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:37:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The person you're responding to blamed Congress. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kvetchnrelease

          Then you blamed Congress.

          It looks like you're fighting, but I really can't figure out why that would be the case.

          "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

          by JesseCW on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:43:54 AM PST

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          •  I blamed some of Congress (0+ / 0-)

            but you choose to read what you want.  Bottom line is we keep hearing this crap about how Obama and the Dems missed some opportunity which was never there.  It was close yes but it was blocked, no chance of passage, and the sane people in Washington saw that, knew it was compromise or nothing and got our foot in the door.  That they got what they did was nothing short of miraculous with the huge money assembled against them and the numbers being what they were.  Not to mention a horribly hostile media.

            "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

            by artmartin on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 03:14:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It was "never there" because there are (0+ / 0-)

              right wing assholes on our side of the aisle in both houses who were blocking it.

              That's just the fact.

              We had the numbers, and we didn't have the votes.

              We weren't close on Single Payer.  We were really close on a Public Option (a much different beast) and in fact we passed one in the House.  

              The President, however, had already traded it away while bargaining with the Hospital lobby over the summer.

              The argument you're making is generally known as "Panglossian".  You're arguing that the fact that the PPACA passed by only a few votes is proof enough that it was the best of all possible bills.

              That does not logically follow.  That these were all the votes we got does not mean that these were all the votes we could have gotten.

              "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

              by JesseCW on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 12:09:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Repeat after me: health care costs; health care (0+ / 0-)

          costs; health care costs. Your refrain, or whine, about not having enough Democratic Party members in congress to pass single payer doesn't address the issue that without single payor, health care costs will push us our economy over the precipice. It wasn't done then and we are paying now and well into the future for this failure. Your apology for how or why it failed doesn't diminish the f'en fact it was our best shot at getting it through and it didn't happen. Victory means you defeat the opposition. To blame the opposition for opposing your objective is a non sequitur .

          "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

          by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:58:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Holy crap (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kvetchnrelease

            Don't you think the rest of us know that?  But best shot or not, you damned well tell me how it would have happened.  Don't just throw out this bullshit that with enough sheer will all the blockades would have gone down, tell me what arms you would have specifically twisted, where you'd find the exact votes.  Because I know that push was there, that there was every effort made to get us the best damned deal they could.  You know why I know?  Because there's not a single solitary reason why you'd put your Presidency on the line like that unless that was your goal.  We had to have the foot in the door just like every other piece of landmark legislation of the past.  That's what we got.  Now let's get to work and get more and stop grossing over what should have been.

            "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

            by artmartin on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 03:21:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do you see single payer rising up again if we (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              artmartin

              regain House in 2014? If it is true as reported that the President believes health care costs are the single redressable issue in the budget battles, then we need to coalesce support and get this done. To do otherwise, jeapordizes his legacy as he has identified health care costs as number one spending issue.

              "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

              by Kvetchnrelease on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 06:34:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I really think that if we (0+ / 0-)

                get the House back and reform the filibuster that yes, we will see a move towards single payer or the interim step of a public option.  An absolute supermajority in the Senate and a Democratic House would be amazing in terms of progressive reforms.

                "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

                by artmartin on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 12:26:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Well, Obama could use the 14th Amendment, (0+ / 0-)

      but for some reason chooses not to.

      If the Republicans ever find out that Barack Obama favors respiration, we'll be a one-party system inside two minutes. - Alan Lewis

      by MadRuth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:36:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  A sovereign nation issuing its own coinage is (10+ / 0-)

      not a sillier idea than a Congress handing a President a budget which obliges him to spend X, then refusing to allow those demands to be funded through either borrowing or taxation.

      Issuing coinage is supposed to be one of those things that, well, Governments do.

      If 1,000 billion dollar coins sounds better, cool.

      "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

      by JesseCW on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 08:49:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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