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View Diary: Platinum coin might be legally required in absence of debt limit increase (144 comments)

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  •  The point of having discussions like this (1+ / 0-)
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    joanneleon

    or any discussion of ideas outside the conventional window of acceptable ideas is to move that window.

    If enough people shift (as I have done over time) from "that's crazy" to "it sounds crazy but damned if it isn't actually a legal and rational answer to the mess we're in" then who knows what the president might do?

    “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

    by jrooth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:29:20 PM PST

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    •  No, it's not crazy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink

      and this kind of discussion is good and healthy, innovative and I strongly agree that we need to do these things.  

      But it can also be argued that to do this right now with any expectation that it will happen is silly.  We're up against the wall now.  It will only be a matter of weeks before votes will be held. Deals are being made right now.  

      So the argument that it makes a hell of a lot more sense to use our energy to organize push back and protests makes a lot of sense.  

      Discussions that will end up being largely theoretical don't help us fight back against cuts to our earned benefits/entitlements, most likely.

      Again, if I'm wrong here and there is any reasonable chance that Obama would consider this, I retract what I've said and I would consider joining whatever movement you put together for this.  But right now it looks nearly impossible that he would do it and we are wasting time by not agitating as much as we possibly can.  I even think that those who would like to distract and divert energies away from organized protest would actually love to see the activist wing of the party huddled down in discussions like these while they march forward making deals.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:36:20 PM PST

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      •  Blah, blah, blah, blah, nt (0+ / 0-)

        Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

        by hestal on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:37:55 PM PST

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      •  But what policy are we to protest for? (1+ / 0-)
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        joanneleon

        Yes, we're up against an artificial cliff yet again.  But the only proper answer to this particular crisis is to eliminate the debt ceiling entirely.  It's a stupid concept - as President Obama has articulated quite effectively.  But that depends entirely on the Republicans abandoning their insane position - something no amount of protest by the left is likely to accomplish.

        And if our aim is to convince the president and the Democratic leadership that there should be no cuts offered in exchange for the Republicans doing what's right then having wide public discussion of a legal (if somewhat unconventional) way out should the Republicans refuse to act responsibly is only helpful.

        “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

        by jrooth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:48:29 PM PST

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        •  At this late stage of the game (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink

          I think the only option is to protest against -- against cutting social programs and paying for the military machine and the tax cuts for the wealthy and the corps on the backs of the poor and the middle class, because that is what they would be doing.

          If we were to protest for something it would be the fact that the income inequality gap is larger now than ever, corporate profits are at record highs, the war budget has doubled since Bush took office and this party is reluctant to even cut it back to 2006 levels, protest against the expansion of the war machine (covert or overt), protest for a tiny transaction tax on high speed trading on Wall Street, protest for using the power of the economies of scale in negotiating for better prices on health care and drugs.  

          We should be protesting against endless war and obscene levels of war spending, against corporate welfare, etc.  We should be shining a big light on this farce and on the fact that the productivity $ gains in the past 30 years have gone almost entirely to the 1%.  And a whole lot of other things.  We should take up a lot of the causes that Occupy Wall Street was fighting for.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:59:28 PM PST

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          •  I'm for all of that ... (0+ / 0-)

            but I really don't see how we can expect that to be effective in the face of Republican economic terrorism.  How many times have we heard the the president was forced to make concessions in the face of Republican willingness to wreck everything if they don't get their way?

            Seems to me having the fact that they don't really have the power to do that out there and widely recognized is valuable.

            “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

            by jrooth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 02:07:48 PM PST

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