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View Diary: Gun Appreciation Day - 19-January-2013 (62 comments)

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  •  Why would I decry a group of American (14+ / 0-)

    citizens exercising their civil rights?

    I'm not really a fan of some of the groups listed there though.

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:59:13 AM PST

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    •  You make my flesh crawl n/t (2+ / 0-)
      •  I'm not your biggest fan either. (8+ / 0-)

        And you never answered my question.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 11:13:24 AM PST

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      •  then this won't help (8+ / 0-)

        My wife and I will make a point of going to the shooting range that day. Would you like us to write "megisi" on the cash we spend there, in your honor?

        Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

        by Tom Seaview on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 11:18:53 AM PST

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        •  Just be aware for a moment (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mindara

          that 15,000 times a year, the guns that were bought for "home defense" are used for suicide.

          Major and Situational Depression present at a ratio of 30:1 with fatal consequences, as compared with civilian justifiable homicides.

          You can look it up. Anyone can.

          Then there's rage against friends and family. Thousands more are killed every year in America.

          People who go to ranges do not practice using targets that resemble themselves and their friends and family. Unless going to the range changes your fundamental makeup as a person, that's what you shoot.

          Good luck with your own personal odds. Wife, too.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 01:47:21 PM PST

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          •  Actually no. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tom Seaview, gerrilea, PavePusher

            15,000 times a year, a gun is used for suicide.

            I've seen $4000 .410 bore european-made shotguns used for suicide, .30-30 Winchester deer rifles used for suicide, and a .38 Special "home defense gun" used for suicide.

            "Hey, I'm looking for a good suicide gun... whaddaya recommend?"
            •  Non sequitur, right. (0+ / 0-)

              Any gun bought for "home defense" is 30:1 more likely to be used for suicide.

              D'oh.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:27:30 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  30 to 1? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tom Seaview, gerrilea, PavePusher

                Link: Depression and Suicide

                Excerpt:

                METHODS

                Use of a firearm is the cause of death in 52% of suicides and is the number one method among adults 35 years of age and older. Gun use is also the most common suicide method among youth, accounting for 45.9% of all suicide deaths. The most common method of suicide among women in all age brackets is poisoning, surpassing firearms every year since 2001. Firearms are also the most common means (71.9%) among the elderly [259,260].

                The suicide rates among youths 15 to 19 years of age by firearm decreased from 7.3 per 100,000 in 1992 to 2.94 per 100,000 in 2007, while the suicide rates by suffocation (e.g., hanging) increased from 1.9 per 100,000 in 1992 to 2.88 per 100,000 in 2007. This trend among older teens has been mirrored by children 10 to 14 years of age, who since 1993 have increasingly used suffocation and decreasingly used guns to complete suicide. In this group, suicides by suffocation have occurred more frequently than those by firearms since 1999 [259,260].

                Although most gun owners report keeping a firearm in their home for the purpose of protection or self defense, 83% of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, usually by someone other than the gun owner. Guns are involved in more deaths by suicide than by homicide, and overall, death by firearm is the most common suicide method [259].

          •  86.2% of statistics (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, PavePusher

            ...quoted on the Internet are pulled out of thin air and won't stand up to even the most cursory research.
            Including 100% of yours, from what I've seen.

            We shoot targets. I've shot competitive trap. My wife and I have concealed carry permits, so we have various firearms for that purpose. None of our guns are specifically "bought for home defense," not that this matters to anyone but you. We know how to defend our home, and we have adequate plans and tools to do it successfully. Good locks and cameras are the first line of defense, but it's deeper than that...

            We don't do violent rage in this house, or outside it. We know ourselves better than that. Even when faced with aggressive driving and extreme terroristic threats while I was armed, when I was the target of politically-motivated road rage last spring, I felt neither fear nor rage: I focused on leaving the scene peacefully without provoking or prolonging further confrontation. I had the better car and was the better driver, so I was able to leave the aggressor and call 911. The police never did show up. If traffic, vehicle dynamics, or luck had gone differently, I still would not have been harmed... but the other guy might not have been so fortunate, despite my best efforts to insulate him from the very real risks he was taking.

            Most gun owners know our guns are only "weapons" in the same way nuclear missiles are weapons; when we use one as a weapon, our world changes forever in unforseen ways that we don't want to discover. I've seen people die violently, and I have every desire not to see it again. I've also been the victim of violent crimes, and now I'm pretty much 100% disabled... yet I still have a duty to protect my family against worse shit than I've been through. I have the tools to do exactly that, and if I thought any of the tools were inadequate I'd straighten that right out.

            You don't hear about us on the news... which also means you don't take us into account when you do your political calculations. This is a much, much more dangerous mistake you're making than cutting us off in traffic could ever be.

            Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

            by Tom Seaview on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 07:37:28 PM PST

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          •  And some 30+K times a year... (0+ / 0-)

            cars bought for "personal transportation" kill people.

            So I should feel ashamed about owning a car, right?  Gawd, I should feel really bad about my motorcycle, I suppose.

            When I go to the range, I shoot at sillouhete targets as part of my training.  If ever have to use one of my guns for self defense, I want to be as accurate as possible.  

            •  Good luck. (0+ / 0-)

              You think you can beat the odds.

              Suicide vs. justifiable "home defense" homicide ------- 30:1.

              Suicide_plus_killing_family_or_friend vs. justifiable "home defense" homicide ------- 44:1.

              You'd never know it from watching television.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:06:35 AM PST

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              •  Those "studies" have been roundly debunked. (0+ / 0-)

                But you won't care.

                •  There's no "studies" and no "debunked." (0+ / 0-)

                  Count the bodies. Do ratios.

                  15,000 to 17,000 suicides using guns every year.

                  Fewer than 500 civilian justifiable homicides at year.

                  15,000:500 = 30:1.

                  NRA bullshit is NRA bullshit.

                  D'oh.

                  And the suicides-plus-homicides ratio is 44:1.

                  D'oh.

                  Very simple arithmetic. Roughly 4th Grade curriculum.

                  "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                  by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 04:45:02 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  I thought that was exczema. (5+ / 0-)

        "Everything I do is blown out of proportion. It really hurts my feelings." - Paris Hilton

        by kestrel9000 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 11:21:01 AM PST

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      •  You make me smile (5+ / 0-)

        Because you can't make decent dialog and go strait to the ad-hominems.

        I don't know which lie to believe anymore.

        by Captain Janeway on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 11:45:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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