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View Diary: End the Flow of Illegal Guns (160 comments)

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  •  End the War on Drugs, Senator, and hit the money (9+ / 0-)

    If you're serious about getting rid of the illegal guns used in crimes in our cities, then you must first recognize where the money to buy those guns comes from.  It comes from the drug gangs making a killing, both literally and financially from the black market.

    It doesn't matter what laws you pass, if gangs want guns and have the money to buy them, they will get them from somewhere.

    All of your drug laws hasn't stopped the flow of illegal drugs, and all of your gun laws won't stop the flow of illegal guns.

    Only ending the black market and puting the gangs out of business for good can do that.

    So the question for you Senator is, are you serious about ending gang driven gun crime, or not?

    •  An area that needs to be addressed, yes. But (4+ / 0-)

      the incredible increase in recent gun purchases are NOT being done by gangs---let's start with closing some of the loopholes in the law regarding sales at open shows, and private transactions.  
      You can't have a car without it being registered; why not guns?

      •  I would agree with registration IF... (7+ / 0-)

        If the individual right to own a gun is universally recognized.  And if we accept that the only way to ban gun ownership is at the individual level through due process in a court.

        Otherwise, as long as we have the "well regulated militia" crowds running around, registration is simply the first step to confiscation.

        Yes my car is registered.  But there also aren't national organizations out there trying to take my car away from me.

        P.S.  I don't own a gun.  I'm talking about my right to own one if I so choose.

      •  I think a distinction needs making (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Norm in Chicago, fuzzyguy

        on the tens of millions of law-abiding gun owners out there who have guns (sometimes quite a few of them) but never use them criminally. The CT shooting highlights an issue of securing those guns from mentally ill family members, but Adam Lanza was an adult who had not (that we know of) committed any crimes with his mother's gun(s) until he flipped out and killed her, himself, and 26 innocent women and children at Sandy Hook.

        There's a lot we could be doing about a lot of things we've identified as leading to or causing gun violence. But this society is never going to do all of them, and even if it did it wouldn't stop one-off tragedies from ever occurring. Nor will making all guns illegal stop criminals from having guns and doing violence with them. And let's face it - even if we could repeal the second amendment there would still be exceptions just as there are in Britain and Australia and other countries with no constitutional right to own guns.

        I am greatly in favor of addressing the issue of gun-running in the criminal underground in this country, usually involving agents of or connected to government at some level. A baseline example of corruption that we can all agree needs to be dealt with harshly. But realistically, we'll never shut it all down completely. Too much money is involved, and our arms manufacturing industry is so powerful they get to write their own laws.

        For all that we CAN do with majority agreement, disarming all law-abiding gun owners is the most likely to contribute significantly to gun violence all by itself. The wacky right will need a bit more finesse, more a carrot and stick approach I suspect.

      •  Phil - what legal guaranty (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VectorScalar

        can we provide to gun owners that the registration information provided will never be used by any government agency to confiscate that weapon? There are numerous examples, including recent ones, where registration has led to confiscation.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 10:51:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't register guns, license owners. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VectorScalar, VClib

          When gun registration is discussed what is actually meant is tracking that person X, with specific contact info, has a specific list of guns with serial numbers.

          I would not expect this to do much in actually reducing deaths or injuries, unless followed by confiscation.  

          A program that would have strong prospects to significantly reduce deaths and injury, without gun registration, would focus on how people handle guns.

          Require that a person pass a written test and an operations test before they are licensed to be able to buy or have transferred guns or ammunition (possibly own for existing owners).  These tests should cover safety, keeping guns away from young children, and unstable people, proper storage, etc., laws and procedures for self defense and defense of others.  The rate that people pass these tests should be about the same as for drivers licenses and be administered by the state and combined with concealed carry licensing for states that do this, with some additional checks and testing.  It should be noted that homicides by those with concealed carry permits is extremely low.

          After a 3 year transition period, possession or attempted fraudulent purchase without a license would have severe penalties.  

          People who live the life of crime and gangs are less likely to seek licenses, so they will either risk high penalties if caught with a gun, or switch to some other weapon or no weapon.

          Fewer deaths and injuries should result directly from the safety and proceedure training aspects.

          There would also be fewer people with guns as some people will choose to go without guns rather than take the effort for training and testing to get the license.

          The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

          by nextstep on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 12:42:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your paragraph that starts with part below (0+ / 0-)
            Require that a person pass a written test and an operations test before they are licensed to be able to buy or have transferred guns or ammunition (possibly own for existing owners).
            Is pretty much how the concealed carry system currently works.  Much of what I am hearing makes sense, with the exception of calls for these silly bans, that honestly wouldn't have been part of the discussion had not a couple of politicians who've been pushing the damned bans for years not taken advantage of this situation to pushed their agenda, make the rudiments of a workable solution.

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