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View Diary: Vice President Biden hopes to present gun-violence proposals Tuesday. Surprise! NRA already says no (184 comments)

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  •  Nobody is calling for abolishing the NRA... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, gchaucer2, Bailey2001, Pluto

    ...we're calling for fighting their political agenda. When you say that members of RKBA have the "same" views as the NRA, you should be specific about which views.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:46:46 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  One major view in common (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Laconic Lib

      that I've seen expressed is the non-reality-based, mind-bendingly obtuse notion that more guns does NOT equal more violence, "no-no-no-no, I have my fingers in my ears, I am not listening to you".  I've seen this idea defended with the same weird, glib, defensive, triumphalist double-speak that we hear all the time from climate change denialists, creationists, abstinence-only believers and pray-the-gay-away-ers.

      Also a total lack of engagement on the question of why anyone needs some of these weapons.

      "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

      by dackmont on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:15:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  More guns demonstrably don't lead to more (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bailey2001, WillR

        violence. The statistics show a consistent decrease as a % of the overall population rates. The real question is whether more guns leads to more gun deaths.

        I see what you did there.

        by GoGoGoEverton on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:22:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  While I'm a reasonable person who understands (0+ / 0-)

          59% of something is more than 41% of something else, iow, 59 > 41, the sheer horror of those 20 kids and 6 of their teachers being murdered provides more weight than sterile numbers.

          To me, the "real question" is why that aspect is not more significant to RKBAers, some of whom I would think have kids.

          **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

          by glorificus on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:43:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You seem pretty obsessed (0+ / 0-)

            about the RKBAers, which is weird since we're meaningless and not monolithic anyway, particularly in the face of the NRA, republicans, etc.

            I see what you did there.

            by GoGoGoEverton on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:08:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The "sterile numbers" also back up gun control... (0+ / 0-)

            no need to apologize for those.  Gun control (again, per 2nd, not banning all of them) is reality-based.

            "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

            by dackmont on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:24:33 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, that Australian ban and buyback of (0+ / 0-)

          semiautomatic weapons totally didn't happen.

          Same with the gun murder statistics, and total murder statistics, in the US compared to other industrialized countries.  Pay no attention.

          "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

          by dackmont on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:23:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  but but but, look over here! nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bailey2001

            I see what you did there.

            by GoGoGoEverton on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:19:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, do look. At facts, not pseudoscience (0+ / 0-)

              Australia banned semiautomatic weapons and instituted a buyback of those already sold, along with other gun control measures.

              What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
              Fewer guns = less violence -- especially homicides, the worst kind.  And that's just Australia.  Other industrialized countries with fewer guns also have less gun violence and fewer homicides than the US.  

              In this normally reality-based community, there isn't any serious question over this stuff.  But just as with climate change and evolution, there is plenty of pseudoscience out there from true believers seeking to muddy the waters, so I'm sure anyone can find something saying up is down.

              "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

              by dackmont on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:19:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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