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View Diary: The end of world as we know it . . . (186 comments)

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  •  "Some of the people here" aren't the problem (3+ / 0-)

    In fact, I think you may be referring to some people who agree with me that we can force the Republicans' hand on issues as long as we strategize appropriately. Same with the Democrats. Politicians respond to particular incentives and that's just the name of the game and not worth crying about.

    We had a golden opportunity back in 2006 and more happened than 'Obama blew it,' too.

    Governments care only as much as their citizens force them to care. Nothing changes unless we change.

    by Nulwee on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:12:54 PM PST

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    •  Much more happened than "Obama blew it." (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mistral Wind

      What also happened was people ignored what he said, specifically about him not being "the answer". He was a community organizer, he knows we need action outside of elections and politicians.

      As for the idea that we can push anything through the gop house that would have any significant impact on global warming strikes me as absurd. Sure, some little stuff will get through the cracks, but nothing meaningful.

      •  Unless we find a way to put the fear of god (0+ / 0-)

        into them. Excluding violence, I think there are ways to influence the bad actors in gov and business.

        The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

        by Words In Action on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:07:24 AM PST

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    •  they respond to financial incentives (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      both carrot and stick
      as long as money rules things, as long as money is the main driver
      we will not improve anything

      if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29:45 PM PST

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      •  Yes and no (0+ / 0-)

        No politician is going to accept a $5 million donation in exchange for a platform of human cannibalism or something as equally fringe. Money has limits.

        It's a tool for getting re-elected. Unfortunately we live in an increasingly greedy world than that which most of us were born into.

        Governments care only as much as their citizens force them to care. Nothing changes unless we change -- George Monbiot.

        by Nulwee on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:54:53 PM PST

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        •  but they will accept it in exchange for (2+ / 0-)

          the destruction of the biosphere and human civilization 80 years down the pike.

          if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:58:09 PM PST

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          •  politicians don't think more than about 5 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            redlum jak, Vote4Obamain2012

            years' ahead - ever.

            We say here, that a week is a long time in politics!

            •  except when they're talking about (2+ / 0-)

              Social Security. Funny, that.

              if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:55:51 AM PST

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              •  Those people don't give a damn about the deficit (2+ / 0-)

                Social Security does not contribute a penny to the deficit. It has a large surplus. It is an earned benefit which people pay into. Many seniors rely greatly upon Social Security for their survival. American voters do not want Social Security messed with. It is hugely popular. Chained CPI cut would save very little over a decade compared to our deficit $131 Billion. Our deficit is annually over a trillion dollars . So, that cut would save very little but would hurt seniors a lot. Thus, it is a dumb immoral idea . We can make up the deficit in other more ethical ways - cutting defense a lot, eliminating corporate tax loopholes (e.g. GE and Exxon Mobil paid no corporate federal income tax at all and Exxon Mobil even gets a $5 Billion tax subsidy as they destroy our planet). While the paper rates are high , the effective corporate tax rate is historically low. Negotiating for lower drug prices would save money . If we really wanted to save money, we would get Medicare for All but our corporate overlords won't allow it. Where were this deficit hawks when Bush took the surplus and turned it into a deficit by tax cuts for the wealthy that were not paid for , extra wars that were not paid for , and Medicare Part D. So, this really was never about the deficit or the national debt.

            •  Unless of course it's a guaranteed job as a (3+ / 0-)

              lobbyist after their term is up provided they vote the right way. And usually that means in a harmful way.

              Physics is bulls**t. Don't let them fool you. Fire IS magic.

              by Pescadero Bill on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:31:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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