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View Diary: Only Thing that Can Stop a Bad Guy With a Gun is a...Unarmed Teacher (268 comments)

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  •  All or nothing huh? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, Tom Anderson

    If a teacher is not comfortable carrying a gun, then don't, but the minority (probably) of teachers and administrators who are comfortable carrying a gun should have the option.

    I had a former school teacher and current school administrator in a Chicago school come into my gun shop a few weeks ago and the first thing she declared is that she is a school administrator and definitely beleives administrators and teachers should have the option to carry a gun.

    NO option is 100% instantly effective 100% of the time so nothing practical that has the potential to work against a given problem should either be eliminated out of hand or considered the only solution. Putting retired LE and military volunteers with a concealed pistol at the front door of a school is a practical low cost option that combined with other options will make our children safer.  Teachers are required to know CPR because an ambulance or school nurse may not get to the child in time.  Likewise, the police will not get to the school on time if some maniac goes on a shooting rampage.  That is why the more people on scene, with basic medical skill and/or shooting skill will always be better than the proffessionals you have to wait for.  Sure, a teacher might not alway get a kid breathing or the armed guard might not defeat the gun man, but why the hell wouldn't you want a person there to try?

    There is so much irrational fear of guns.  I am around people all day, with varying levels of training, who carry guns.  My exposure to guns and armed civilians (and LE) is extremely high, yet nothing goes awry simply because of the presence of guns.

    •  Your exposure is high, yes (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies, Smoh, Nowhere Man

      But that is voluntary.  It is a big leap to having an armed sentry meet children at the door when they come to school.  While I see where you are coming from, I hope you can see that not everyone is going to be comfortable with that idea.  And pointing out how "irrational" that is will not win any converts.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:39:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Such an insane suggestion obvioucly comes from a (12+ / 0-)

      person who never had the responsibility for teaching a classroom of six year olds.  Being a good security guard means being aware of all of the enviornment ---- which takes the teacher out of the classroom and diverts her attention from the children.  The entire learning miliu would get a lot more dangerous!

    •  what about schools with multiple entry points (9+ / 0-)

      As I mentioned, the school I taught in had at least 14 doors from the outside in.  Do you have an armed guard at each of those?   What are the logistics?  As a teacher, would we be apprised of each of these guards names, etc.  There was an instance at this same school when I saw a man walking out of the math wing that I did not recognize.  He did not have on a visitor badge so I asked if I could help him.

      He told me he did not need my help and I could go on about my way.  By the way, he was armed but was not showing any kind of official indentification.  I followed him up to the front of school where I got the attention of one of the assistant principals and expressed my concern about his refusal to explain in any way why he was on the campus.  I was not totally satisfied by the answer given but did signal to the administration that armed outsiders were not to just be allowed to come on campus without some sort of identification.

      'If you are curious, you are not bored. If you are bored, you grow old.' Lillian Gish

      by Jakkalbessie on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:41:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry but there is so much conventional wisdom (14+ / 0-)

      fail in your comment that I cannot let it pass.

      For example

      military volunteers
      Pfffttt.  Who's going to do the screening and background checks?

      We need to rehire all the teachers laid off in the last couple of years before we spend money on mandatory screening and background check for such volunteers.

       How else would you identify troubled vets?  There is so much domestic violence and suicidal behavior by vets  now that I cannot believe you would even suggest this.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:52:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you serious?!? (20+ / 0-)
      Putting retired LE and military volunteers with a concealed pistol at the front door of a school is a practical low cost option that combined with other options will make our children safer.
      Holy shit, what are you smoking?

      You are aware, perhaps, that the DC Sniper was a National Guard veteran, that Timothy McVeigh was a veteran...

      Being a veteran is no guarantee that you have good intentions, in fact there are many examples of veterans with mental problems.  

      All you morons with delusions of grandeur have been watching way too many Hollywood movies and have no frickin' idea what you're talking about.

      Twenty kids died at Sandy Hook.  A couple thousand died this year in car accidents.  Maybe those veterans ought to be out at the bars at night offering to be designated drivers and giving defensive driving lessons in the daytime instead.  It would save more lives.

      •  Yup, it's on the rec list right now: (4+ / 0-)

        Sherriff Joe's Armed School Protection "Posse" includes Convicts & Sex Offenders

        This is what this rotten to the core 'movement' has wrought.

      •  ...and retired LE officers (5+ / 0-)

        are retired for a reason: either they are old, or they are injured in some way that makes them unfit for duty. So let's eliminate the obviously unfit immediately, and we're left with a bunch of people like me: their reflexes aren't what they used to be, their eyesight isn't what it used to be, and they don't think as fast as they used to. They've probably put on a few pounds and don't move so fast anymore, either.

        Just the people I'd want guarding a school full of kids.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 05:33:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I get the sense that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, Bisbonian, trumpeter

        there are too many people here steeped in movie fantasies of the powerful guy with the weapons who protects a whole town from a posse of bad guys. 'Morons with delusions of grandeur" is what I think of when I read a post suggesting how easy and sensible it would be to turn schools into fortresses guarded by people with deadly weapons.

        I also get the sense from some of the posts responding to the frothy-mouthed gun nuts that some on the left have orgasms over the thought of insurrection and violence. I know my sister and her friends back in their SDS days 40 years ago did. There's a certain romance to the rugged individuals taking to the hills and surviving on their wits against the big, bad government, and I think some here have been infected with it.

        Something about the issue of guns makes some Americans lose their power to think rationally. And it's not just far right extremists who sound like they kiss their guns goodnight.

        Jon Husted is a dick.

        by anastasia p on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 07:13:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Chicago's public schools have lots of problems, (0+ / 0-)

      and arming the staff and faculty is not going to make them go away or make the schools safer places conducive to learning.

    •  the reason why there is so much Irrational (0+ / 0-)

      fear of guns is because it is quite  frightening to realize that someone can use a gun to kill one' s self, one' s colleagues, one' s students.  A single mistake with a gun can kill.  It is quite natural and reasonable to have an irrational fear of guns, and that fear has prevented more deaths than guns ever did.

      And do the NRA parents ever realize that their children can, on occasion lapse into insufferable behavior at the very moment when a long suffering, underpaid, overtaxed, teacher is finally pushed over the brink.  Will they have the nerve (rhetorical) to sue the school over their plugged hellion?

      I have met some very good Christian teachers who had an  erratic explosion once in a great while.  I have also known of little darlings who get a big thrill out of taking teachers things.

      Thanks folks.  A gun toting teacher is not acceptable.  It causes more problems than it solves.

      •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

        I do not believe it is reasonable to have an irrational fear.

        I believe it is reasonable to have a rational fear.

        The difference is education and knowledge. Lots of folks right here in DK are still responding as if guns can be possessed by evil spirits and have the self-will to go off on their own.

        It's a hunch of mine that most folks who have irrational fear of guns gained their gun education and gun knowledge from movies, where the special effects crew 'massage' reality into the fiction of the big screen.

        It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink.

        by JayFromPA on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 03:12:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  perhaps semantic (0+ / 0-)

          but a rational fear is proportional to the price (emotional, financial, social) Times the event probability.  I count the cost of lost children infinite to the families and very large to the community.  

          Even if the probability is small, as it indeed is, the price is unacceptably high.  The fear is both reasonable and unreasonable.  it is all too reasonable to fear the unreasonable.

          It seems to me irrational to say that the price ( indignities Times miniscule number) is at all "reasonable".  

          There are two possibilities in your formulation.  The evil spirits can be denied access to guns, or we can accept the loss of our children, friends, public figures, and others.  I am clear that guns must be restricted.

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