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View Diary: 1st Amendment vs 2nd Amendment (59 comments)

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  •  I think the comparison was 30 round clips to (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, imobannon, Youffraita, oldpunk, 43north

    kiddie porn, if I read correctly (my eyes are malfunctioning again)  
    However, if such a comparison is made in discussion and followed up, I would point out child porn as an analogy is fraught with minefields.  For example, several states, including TN (I think) have banned not only videos and pictures of children engaged in sexual activity but also all representations of children engaged in sexual activity. This includes all literary and artistic representations, which means an artist's representation of a minor in a sexual manner or an author's description of such activity.  At least one author has been prosecuted under such state laws, I believe.  This means Nabokov's "Lolita" would certainly fall under this statute.

    If we can agree that prosecutions of productions of "Lolita" are not constitutional, then the question is where would such an analogous line exist in regards to firearms?
    https://sites.google.com/...

    •  I'm a simple soul (4+ / 0-)

      and I accept your reasoning, and the Diarists point.

      I fear others will see gun:child porn and not get past it.

      The debate is heated enough.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 11:34:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I read the diary, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deedogg, PavePusher, Tom Seaview, 43north

        got to that statement and...well let's just say that hence forth this diarist is now persona non grata.

        You eat a lot of acid, Miller, back in the hippie days?

        by oldpunk on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 12:50:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  regardless of your feelings about the diarist (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oldpunk, twigg, 43north

          he does offer a useful analogy for discussion as child porn is a topic that is very emotional, that many of the public have strong feelings about and which is very misunderstood by many people.

          While it appears child porn would be straight forward, we are left with the SCOTUS observation that porn is recognized once seen.  Other than that, it defies definition in at least some cases, such as seen with Nabokov.  Decades ago, "Lolita" was called porn and banned in many cities.  Now it is considered a literary work.  Not a word has changed but the perception has.  Any time a subject is driven by emotion, there is the danger of overkill and the absolute necessity for some sort of middle ground.

          It is all in the nuances...............

      •  perhaps; I am finding myself doing something I (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, 43north

        had promised myself something that I would not do.  I said to myself that I would not tune out any diarist or commenter no matter how extreme his POV regarding banning guns completely.

        However I am finding that any discussion with absolutists is an exercise in futility, on either side.  I hope the diarist is not one such absolutist, such as a commenter on another blog who opined that any gun owner whose gun is used for a crime, should receive the same sentence as the defendant in the criminal case, even if the gun is stolen or even taken by force from the owner, or if the perpetrator is not caught, for the gun owner to be tried in his stead.

    •  You're right about Lolita (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpunk, 43north

      I'm basically an absolutist on the First Amendment.  Except:

      You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theater (unless there is one; and even then you should try to shepherd people out the appropriate fire doors w/out panicking them).

      But Lolita is a work of fiction; it doesn't endanger anyone.  And it is generally considered a literary work of fiction -- not porn.

      But then I see news stories about parents getting arrested b/c they have nude pics of their infant children.  Not sexually exploitive pics, just the kind of nude pics kids of my (ahem, no, not telling my age, but I remember Nixon and Johnson and, vaguely, Camelot) generation were routinely put in family photo albums.

      Nude pics of your newborns!  Or of them wearing only a diaper!  It was routine, back then, with ABSOLUTELY no sexual innuendo for 99 percent of parents.  (That one percent?  Okay, pervs.)

      Now?  The Morality Police figure everyone is a perv.

      I really doubt the percentage has changed.  People are just more afraid now than they were then.

      To make the argument that the media has a left- or right-wing, or a liberal or a conservative bias, is like asking if the problem with Al-Qaeda is do they use too much oil in their hummus. Al Franken

      by Youffraita on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 12:51:52 AM PST

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      •  If you read the transcripts of trials of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, 43north, Bud Fields

        alleged pornographers, from Larry Flynt to Nabokov to R. Kelly, you will find the problem with the standard of "shouting fire" that in the case of art, smoke does not always denote fire
        http://theosproject.blogspot.com/...
        http://en.wikipedia.org/...
        and people have been arrested for either "creating" subjects or "avatars" that depict child sex or else for the written description of child sex.

        The difference between literary works and porn is a very slippery one.  For many Americans, they have access to the expurgated versions but very rarely the full bore content of many novels, as various "Griwold's" (Poe reference) try to clean up or bowdlerize various works

        •  Recc'd (0+ / 0-)

          for proper use of proper English throughout a cogent discussion. Thank you!

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Economic
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 09:59:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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