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View Diary: I just voted NO in France - defense of the NO vote, which is the ONLY PROGRESSIVE VOTE (175 comments)

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  •  Answer (3.83)
    1. The Socialist Party of France also officially supports the Constitution. As you may know though, the left-wing of the Socialist Party is opposing it, and the Socialist Party is at the brink of implosion.
    2. Same thing in Germany: the SPD is officially for the Constitution, led by Schroeder. However, you may also know that the SPD is drifting to the right completely, which explains the huge losses of Schroeder over the past year in elections. The left-wing of his party is threatening to secede and to follow Oscar Lafontaine, Schroeader ex-Minister of the Economy, that left the SPD to found a new party, at the left of the SPD. Oscar Lafontaine came to France to help Socialists who were campagaigning for the "no".
    3. In many countries (15 out of 25), including Germany, there is no referendum. Thus, there is no real debate. If there had not been these 4 months of campagaigning here, nobody would have cared about the Constitution and all these hard feelings would not have developped and you could have asked the same question about France.

    I don't know what happened on November 2nd! But I do know what we will make happen starting on November 3rd!

    by FrenchSocialist on Sun May 29, 2005 at 02:30:41 AM PDT

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    •  thanks for the explanation (none)
      I was thinking of joining SPD when I move here permanently in the fall.  But it seems they have the same problem as our Democrats - moving to much to the center and allowing the CDU/CSU - Republicans to move more to the right.  I am also disappointed with the Greens for doing the same thing.

      "There must be some way out of here, said the Joker to the Thief" -Bob Dylan is my god

      by Jeffersonian Democrat on Sun May 29, 2005 at 02:36:09 AM PDT

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      •  I am not sure how much Lafontaine's new party (none)
        will have success, but it is worth for you to consider joining it.

        I don't remember the exact name, something like the WAGS I think.

        THey were created 4 month ago, and they already got 2% in the last regional elections, which was a surprise.

        I don't know what happened on November 2nd! But I do know what we will make happen starting on November 3rd!

        by FrenchSocialist on Sun May 29, 2005 at 02:37:33 AM PDT

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        •  That (none)
          is the exact party I was looking at.  I can't remember the initials either but I've seen some of their posters up.  Great minds think a like.

          And sorry for all the French jokes I've told in the past <snark>.

          "There must be some way out of here, said the Joker to the Thief" -Bob Dylan is my god

          by Jeffersonian Democrat on Sun May 29, 2005 at 02:51:35 AM PDT

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      •  What? (4.00)
        thinking globally, the bickering between the leftier Lafontaine and the left Schroeder are ridiculous and unfortunate and as important as peanuts.

        The CDU/CSU is schmoozing with the Bush administration and Bush administration is pampering and hugging the Christian Conservatives in Germany any time they get the chance, because the CDU is power hungry and Bush is a power-drunk, playing out the role of an divide and conquer 21rst century proxy emperor.

        Human life should be governed by truth, freedom, justice and love.

        by mimi on Sun May 29, 2005 at 05:05:47 AM PDT

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        •  Stop thinking of everything in relations to the (3.00)
          Bush administration...

          I don't know what happened on November 2nd! But I do know what we will make happen starting on November 3rd!

          by FrenchSocialist on Sun May 29, 2005 at 05:08:04 AM PDT

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          •  No way ! (4.00)
            You stop thinking just about your local ideological phantasies and show compassion for the people, who will have to suffer the consequences of ideological fundamental preachers, theorists and missionaries. Do you really think anybody cares if he has to suffer from a right-wing take-over or a left-wing nutjob? Living through hell is bad enough, I don't care if it's a left or a right hell. :-)

            Human life should be governed by truth, freedom, justice and love.

            by mimi on Sun May 29, 2005 at 05:18:37 AM PDT

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    •  How can it be good for the left (3.66)
      that the socialist party is imploding?

      How do you intend to come back in power with a coalition that represents at most 25% of the French electorate (the left "non")? Or being in power and actually trying to improve things, even if not making them perfect, is not a worthwhile task?

      Remember that Arlette Laguiller, the hard trostkyst, explicitly voted agaisnt some social legislation in the european Parliament (casuing it to fail) because she said that anything making the system more unbearable for workers would accelerate revolution, her stated goal. Is that your kind of progressivism?

      Who will you ally with? The centrist left, or the other "non" parties of the right? Or is the goal just to break things, say "fuck you" to the "establishment" (and the rest of europe), and enjoy the show?

      in the long run, we're all dead (Keynes)

      by Jerome a Paris on Sun May 29, 2005 at 02:58:19 AM PDT

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    •  Fabius the "left wing of the party"? (none)
      As you may know though, the left-wing of the Socialist Party is opposing it,

      For a century or more, it has been a trope of French socialist debates to claim that one's position is the "left-wing" position and that one's opponents are accomodationists. Indeed, thats the criticism that has been made for a genearation of ...Fabius.

      So doesn't one doubt if its all that simple when Fabius is the one making that case? Or for that matter, Emmanuelli? This is typical Fabusien internal politics, to use every issue as a chance to try to take over. If there is any one responsible for dividing the party over this issue, its Fabius. There was an internal referendum and he lost, badly. He should have either left the party and joined with the PCF if he really wanted to be a populist left-winger or assumed his responsibilities as #2 of the PS and stood by the party platform, explained it to people and helped it win.

      His actions are analogous to a VP nominee on a US ticket breaking with his party on a key issue.

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