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View Diary: I just voted NO in France - defense of the NO vote, which is the ONLY PROGRESSIVE VOTE (175 comments)

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  •  Europe will have influence (4.00)
    on defense matters ONLY IF France and the UK, the only two real powers, can find a compromise. and the good news is that id these two find a compromise, chances are that most other countries will be able to live with it as they represent two opposite poles of opinions. But if there are no mechanisms to encourage them, or better to force them to forge a common policy, then they will keep on doing their own thing, both will be ignored, and the other countries will fall where they can depending on their current government orientation and usual diplomatic alliances.

    On the economy, France and Germany got things done precisely because they represented totally opposed positions: statist vs liberal, centralising vs federalist. When they forced themselved to find a compromise, which was VERY HARD, everybody could live with it. Now that the tw countries are seen as having the same positions, the alliance cannot lead as much becasue they are not seen as reflecting the full diversity of opinions in Europe.

    Again, anything, like the Constitution, that forces the countries to find compromises in more areas of policy is a big progress.

    in the long run, we're all dead (Keynes)

    by Jerome a Paris on Sun May 29, 2005 at 04:15:53 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  liberal (none)
      Jerome,

      I find your use of the word liberal interesting.  What does it mean in French?  As a libertarian, I view liberals as statists.  They want the state to provide a safety net for the poor.  They want the state to provide free universal health care and education.  They want the state to protect the environment.  They want the state to take guns away from people who have not committed a crime.  In what sense do you use the word liberal as the polar opposite as statist?

      I also noticed Frank used the term liberalise in a context where an American would say privatize.  Many libertarians in the U.S. call themselves Classical Liberals (in reference to the Founding Fathers of our country) and see laisse-faire as a classical liberal position.  Do libertarians in France call themselves liberals?  Are there even any libertarians in France?

      •  "libéral" (none)
        in French means almost the opposite of liberal in the US. In French, it is used to describe those that favor laissez faire free market policies. It is usually used as "ultra-libéral" and it is pretty derogatory.

        in the long run, we're all dead (Keynes)

        by Jerome a Paris on Mon May 30, 2005 at 01:55:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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