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View Diary: I just voted NO in France - defense of the NO vote, which is the ONLY PROGRESSIVE VOTE (175 comments)

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  •  French Naderites? (none)
    Anyway, see my comment below.

    I must say that the "oui" voices in this argument seem a lot more knowledgeable, with fact-based arguments, than the diarist, whose diary entry reads like something churned out by a political party's propaganda press office.  It has the air of something that has been memorized, rather than thought out.

    Sorry if that's unfair, but to me it sounds like the kind of sclerotic thinking that brought the British trade union movement some short-term gains in the mid-1970s, only to find themselves crushed by Thatcher 10-15 years later.

    "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

    by JJB on Sun May 29, 2005 at 06:53:48 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I found this diary persuasive. (none)
      the imposition of laissez-faire economic policies with force and the anti-democratic character of decisionmaking (which would be even less democratic thatn the U.S. model established to protect the power of slavehodling states) seem like a deal killer to moi.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral

      by Christopher Day on Sun May 29, 2005 at 07:26:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No such thing (4.00)
        "imposition of laissez-faire policies"

        is false. Either the policies are already in force under the existing treaties, or they are actually more socially-lminded in the Constitution. I have yet to be pointed out to a counter example.

        "anti-democratic character of decision making"

        is also false. The supposed lack of democracy is a conveninet argument for national politicians that want to blame someone else for decisions they actually contribute to. As I have written elsewhere in the thread, there IS democracy AND legitimacy in EU institutions and the constitution increases both.

        in the long run, we're all dead (Keynes)

        by Jerome a Paris on Sun May 29, 2005 at 07:34:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You Must Have Found It Persuasive (none)
        Because you just posted the Cliff Notes version.

        Lots of rhetoric meant to stir the passions of the mob, but no facts to back it up.

        The diary is well written, but it's just hot air.  And if a "oui" vote was a guarantor of laissez-faire economic policies, would the far-right (which I'm assuming includes the French versions of Thatcherite and Milton Friedman-esqe thought) oppose it?

        "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

        by JJB on Sun May 29, 2005 at 07:44:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Definition of "Right" (none)
          And if a "oui" vote was a guarantor of laissez-faire economic policies, would the far-right (which I'm assuming includes the French versions of Thatcherite and Milton Friedman-esqe thought) oppose it?

          Don't confuse the French "far right" with the American "far right"

          •  think Pat Buchanan, not Milton Friedman (none)
            ... for the closest American analog to the Le Pen faction in France.  But Pat Buchanan and Global Exchange have rather different reasons for objecting to the WTO and GATT.
            •  No Direct Translation Really (none)
              If you had to do a man-for-man comparison I'd choose DeLay or Coburn to match up against Le Pen.  But the political landscape in France is much more complicated than that.  They don't really have a two party system the way we do.  The terms also don't translate very well.  Communists are not like Russian or Chinese Communists for instance. Mitterand went to power on the Communist vote and the was Socialist...

              http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9601/mitterand/

              Socialists are not comparable to ours - or at least the ones we had in the '30s.

              Basically the terms are all relative to each nation's political landscape.  Some places like France have more apparent facets to the spectrum than the US does.

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