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  •  As usual, Obama fails miserably in negotiations (6+ / 0-)

    with the psychopath GOP.  He needs to keep his mouth shut in the days/weeks leading up to and during these hostage negotiations.  Which seem to be monthly these days.  OK Obama, you feel like you need to take the alleged high road and completely dismiss invoking the 14th amendment and/or minting a $1 trillion coin?  Fine.  Just keep your fucking mouth shut about it.  Let them think you're willing to do it, or at the very least let them think you're considering it.  Just, be, quiet!

    •  Discarding an ace in the hole face up (5+ / 0-)

      is a bad sign.

      It signals that you don't know how to play poker.  

      If cats could blog, they wouldn't

      by crystal eyes on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:20:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  On the plus-side though, … (3+ / 0-)

      Tom can go back to cartooning the psychopaths

      and that's a mulch…and THAT's beneficial for your garden!

      United We Understand

      by dorkenergy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:28:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If Obama isn't Going to Mint the Coin, He Can (8+ / 0-)

      at least bluff to gain leverage. But once you realize that Democrats play to lose (good cop vs. bad cop), the seemingly poor negotiation and bargaining makes sense.

      "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

      by Aspe4 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:34:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good Cops and Bad Cops are on the same side. (5+ / 0-)
      •  Why would you need leverage (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Words In Action

        if there is no negotiation?

        •  There Will be Negotiation (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib, JesseCW

          Why wouldn't the repugs try to gain concessions in exchange for raising the debt ceiling? Because Obama said he wouldn't negotiate? You take him at his word?

          "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

          by Aspe4 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:23:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

            there's no leverage for Republicans, they won't let the country default.

            •  At this point, they don't need much leverage (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Aspe4, shaharazade, Oaktown Girl

              To the extent that Obama has bought the same economic BS we all have, and until WE educate ourselves and him, the Rs don't need much leverage to get spending cuts.

              Obama, with his crop of neo-liberal advisors, has it backwards in thinking they need to balance the budget.

              The budget is only one indicator of a healthy economy.

              And in down times, the government needs to INCREASE THE DEFICIT.

              United We Understand

              by dorkenergy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:47:54 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Issue Isn't Whether Repugs Will Actually Default (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW

              The issue is whether Obama and the Dems believe that the repugs will allow default. Or more precisely, will Obama and the Dems use the possibility that Repugs will allow default as an excuse to give concessions to them?

              "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

              by Aspe4 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:51:58 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, he won't (0+ / 0-)

                and the only way to give Republicans a reason to try for default would be giving them a ridiculous cop-out like a trillion dollar coin that would crater the President's approval.

                •  You're arguably correct that the "TDC (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Aspe4, offgrid

                  would crater the President's approval" at this point. (See my comments elsewhere in this thread about need to change dialog as a preface to changing that disapproval.)

                  But the other point remains: the Dems and Obama -- because they have bought hook-line-and-sinker the neoliberal BS about the way for them to look responsible is to BALANCE the budget, STILL think they have to make SOME cuts.

                  THAT's the problem.

                  And each of us who accepts that is the problem.

                  Morning Mantra: Increase the Deficit NOW!

                  United We Understand

                  by dorkenergy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:59:51 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  To the extent that Dems -- and yes, I'll (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4, Oaktown Girl, TiaRachel

        say it, (most) Progressives, play to lose is because they've swallowed the macroeconomic BS that we've all been taught these last several decades.

        All to the benefit of the Banksters and the few selected billionaire overlords who push the narrative.

        United We Understand

        by dorkenergy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:21:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most people who call themselves "liberal" or (0+ / 0-)

          "progressive" are doing so from within the Rush-Limbaugh framed definitions of those terms. Basically "not Republican" is equivalent to "liberal" or "progressive" in their minds.

          And that is a direct result of the framing in the corporate owned media for the last three decades.

          Note, for anybody about to whine about "no true scotsmen" fallacies, I'm not claiming any such thing. I'm identifying the context in which these people self-identify. That doesn't mean they aren't actually liberals or progressives; just that the definitions of those words has been (radically) altered.

    •  The only this can make sense (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aspe4, pdx kirk, offgrid

      in the long run is if we help create the conditions -- i.e., change the dialogue -- so that Obama sees that route is incumbent upon him.

      To this point, the subject has been broached -- see, e.g., The Bright Shiny Object of Change.

      And whether or not one thinks that the coin or the 14th or whatever other mechanism is the best way to go, what we need to focus on getting the populace (and, eventually) CongressCritters to understand what the modern monetary reality is in a Monetarily Sovereign State. (For those of you who don't understand that, have a look at that link.)

      As Joel David Palmer says in that article:

      The earth moved under our feet a little bit over the past week.
      The question now becomes how can we best help in the evolution of the dialogue.

      United We Understand

      by dorkenergy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:46:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The coin is Boehner's dream solution (0+ / 0-)

      he doesn't have to hold a vote on the debt ceiling and Obama takes the blame. And boy, will he take the blame.
      If Republicans know there's an out for them, they don't have to care about the consequences of their actions.
      But there's not, that's why they're waffling.

    •  He's not failing. (0+ / 0-)

      He's putting them right on the spot he needs them to be, fully responsible for whatever bullshit goes down.

      The platinum coin thing would make a joke out of our financial credibility, and provoke a constitutional crisis that would do all the work of undermining our full faith and credit that the moron Republicans are trying to do right now.

      The Fourteenth Amendment thing?  Same thing, you'd have Congress arguing they didn't authorize further debt, while the White House Claimed otherwise.

      What you don't seem to get about Obama's position is that it's all about twisting those dumb motherfucker's arms behind their back, forcing them to agree in front of God and everybody else to give us a clean debt ceiling increase, to take that dumb motherfucker of an economy threatening idea off the table once and for all.  It's a position designed to make those sick fucks eat crow.

      Obama gets them to do it, and its another blow to the political credibility of the Republicans, another victory for us, and it'll let the oxygen back in the room for everybody else.  No more extortion, no more idiocy.

      Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

      by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:47:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He could do everything you just said without (0+ / 0-)

        saying a word about his intentions of the 14th or the coin.  That's all I'm saying.  I honestly don't give a flying fuck whether he utilizes the 14th or the coin.  My point is it's piss poor negotiating to talk about it.  It's like being asked by a used car salesman "What's your budget?".  You don't answer that question.  Ever.

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