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View Diary: California: Back in the black with progressive governance (134 comments)

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  •  I agree with split roll (5+ / 0-)

    I don't agree with lifting restrictions on residential property taxes. In the mid 1970s average annual property tax increases were between 60-70% and in some cases as much as 200%. Prop 13 passed because people were furious - and rightly so. That is totally unsustainable.

    "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

    by Shane Hensinger on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 04:35:36 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  real estate also soared during that time (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Capt Crunch, KJG52, spritegeezer, stagemom, IM

      but noone thought it was unfair that people of certain generational cohorts got to cash in on that sudden unearned wealth. spare me the crocodile tears about the mythical old ladies taxed out of their homes, when noone gives a damn then or now about people who lose their homes for any other economic reason.

      •  Well there's that perspective (0+ / 0-)

        Which sounds like a sure-fire winner when telling people they need to agree to double or triple their property taxes.

        "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

        by Shane Hensinger on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:09:00 PM PST

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        •  the state tripled my tuition (6+ / 0-)

          and gutted my school district's funding year after year so those people could not pay their fair share of the load, and none of them seemed to mind much. i guess some generational cohorts are more important than others.

          •  Causing others pain because you were caused (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sombra, Bailey2001

            pain is a very poor basis for public policy.

            "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

            by Shane Hensinger on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:18:06 PM PST

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            •  causing the rich to pay their taxes (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KJG52, Willa Rogers, IM, sukeyna

              so that the poor and middle are not squeezed is a time-tested basis for sound public policy. we've tried reaganism and the howard jarvis asset bubble way, and it wrecked the state in painful, unequal and long-lasting ways. i'm done with that failed approach, and don't care much about your equity when it's hard for most people in this state to even pay the rent.

              •  Homeowners are "rich?" (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sombra, KenBee, Samulayo, limpidglass

                To be squeezed to help people pay the rent?

                I don't understand where you come up with this stuff.

                "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

                by Shane Hensinger on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:28:33 PM PST

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              •  However, keep in mind that living in a house (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bryduck, Shane Hensinger

                that doubled in value because of the sale of a house down the street doesn't make you rich. This is especially true when the market is volatile and when there's no readily available source of less expensive housing nearby to transfer to.

                It would be like saying someone is rich because their rent doubled. And that's how the dramatic rises made people feel, like renters.

                Volatility in your bills as was seen in the 1970s is not a good thing. Prop 13 was passed for a reason. But I agree with you that it was not good governance, that it was designed not to help homeowners but to help apartment building landlords. To craft a better solution requires acknowledgement of the original problem that led voters to vote yes.

                Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                by elfling on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:54:10 AM PST

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                •  That's the thing. It's not/doesn't have to be (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  elfling

                  either Prop 13 or no Prop 13. There are an infinite number of laws that could take the place of Prop 13 and protect the 90-year-old grandmothers of above without bankrupting the rest of the state's interests. It shouldn't be "homeowners v. the world" as it is now.

                  "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                  by bryduck on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:03:49 AM PST

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                  •  Absolutely. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bryduck

                    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                    by elfling on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:04:28 AM PST

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                  •  There's also the future 90 year olds to consider (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bryduck, Shane Hensinger

                    It's likely I won't be able to stay in my house when I retire, because of the high property taxes I am paying now.

                    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                    by elfling on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:05:41 AM PST

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                    •  But that's not an abnormal (0+ / 0-)

                      situation; "retiring to Florida/New Mexico/wherever it's cheaper to live" used to be an acceptable end-of-working-life outcome. Only the rare few who made millions or had a large enough pension could afford to stay in the same house in which they lived during their working lives.

                      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                      by bryduck on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:16:11 AM PST

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      •  I think you weaken your argument (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shane Hensinger

        when you use the word "mythical" because there absolutely were people who were looking at huge tax increases and needing to move for that reason alone.

        The rest of your point is well taken.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 08:47:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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