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View Diary: If you don't have kids you have no value to society (301 comments)

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  •  a matter of choice (8+ / 0-)

    If I didn't have kids I would be a lot better off financially but my life would be a lot less fulfilling. My grand kids are a lot less of a hassle than my kids were.
    I know lots of woman who had a career instead of kids and most have a lot of money. I don't get why you need a dependent child if have no income, sounds like should qualify for medicaid.

    •  "I don't get why you need a dependent child if (28+ / 0-)

      you have no income, sounds like should qualify for medicaid."

      This is a very common misperception, even in the liberal community.  The truth of the matter is that sometime (don't know when exactly) the Medicaid program became 'less adult friendly.'  Actually, that's an understatement.  

      It basically excludes all 'able-bodied' adults (i.e., those not receiving or eligible for disability insurance) if they don't have a "dependent" child or children of a certain age group (again, not sure if the cutoff age is--maybe 18?).

      US social insurance policy has been trending in this direction for over 30 years.  That's what all the talk of cutting the social safety net for seniors is about.

      The argument in both Dem and Repub 'think tank circles' is that the GDP and US growth all depend on the children, and therefore we must ensure that the receive all the health care and education that they need.  

      Guess the PtB think that all this is a zero-sum game.  They clearly believe that the regular Joe "senior citizen" has it too good, if more of them are not in breadlines, like they were in the days before Social Security.

      You'll only hear more and more of this, I assure you.  Politicians are careful to allow the policy experts in both parties do the talking on this issue, for reasons that you might imagine.  

      I'm just wondering when this trend of pitting our oldest citizens, against the youngest citizens will end.  Unfortunately, I'd say that we're soon going to find out.

      It's called "the Grand Bargain."

      Mollie

      “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

      by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:55:45 PM PST

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    •  It depends on who you are. (33+ / 0-)

      Some of us know we would not be fulfilled by having kids, or would not be good parents, or would resent the kid, and so we don't.  

      I think it's easy for society to look at women (not men, because men, hey, footloose and fancy free, go bro!) without kids and assign regrets to them.  Which, many may have.  But many women who have kids have regrets too.  It's harder for them to say that, though, because they love their children.  More than that, they're culturally required to love having children, even if the endless, endless, endless work and care and expense and worry wears them down, even if the love comes at the expense of other dreams and even their senses of self.  But some do bitterly regret having kids.

      I think parenthood is very hard, very important work, and I know I'm not up to it nor interested in it.

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:39:16 PM PST

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      •  wish I could rec this a million times n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cai, lorzie, Aug6PDB
      •  Great comment. (9+ / 0-)

        You perfectly articulated how I feel.  

        I had a tubal ligation in my 30s, because I knew I didn't want kids, and I didn't want to keep worrying about birth control.  A few people said, "What if you change your mind?"  That's a risk I was willing to take, because what if I'd had kids and then regretted THAT decision?  

        I'm 50, and except for what I call 'Polaroid Moments' around the holidays, I'm still relieved I don't have children.

      •  men without children (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marina, 6ZONite, averybird, Aug6PDB

        are also sometimes viewed as selfish and irresponsible, although the most direct criticism I've gotten of this sort has been from men from certain culturally conservative, ethnic minority cultures.

        "I have more than two prablems" - The Coach Z

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:14:27 AM PST

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      •  Well said, for some people kids are a great (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        6ZONite, averybird, Aug6PDB, kareylou

        experience and for others it is an endless source of frustration and pain which they discover when it is too late.  Raising children has become an all consuming experience which I do not remember when I was growing up.  I grew up in a working class neighborhood and women worked and kids helped their parents.  They did chores as soon as they were able.  Today working class parents raise their children in the way the wealthy raise their children.  They expect to be waited on hand and foot until they leave the house.  It makes an impossibly difficult situation for parents.  I am not sure how we got here but I see it all over the place,  exhausted parents and whiny, demanding kids.

        •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kareylou

          "Today working class parents raise their children in the way the wealthy raise their children.  They expect to be waited on hand and foot until they leave the house."

          That's how we got here.  Because parents allowed it.  Because PARENTS made it that way.

          That's why I refuse to watch shows like Supernanny (gag!).  I can't understand how anyone can watch that dreck...people who absolutely have NO interest in disciplining their kids, then years later when they're rolling around the house crying all the time and don't listen or do any work, they throw up their hands and go "Oh my goodness!  WHY are my kids like this??"

          •  Let's be a little fair about this, kids are like (0+ / 0-)

            everyone else in this country, we all know our RIGHTS but no one knows or accepts their responsibilities.  The system has helped create this situation. all the advice about how to raise a SUCCESSFUL child has been just plain WRONG, everyone WINS, never say NO, be your childs FRIEND.  The number one thing that kids need to learn is that their parents are not their friend, they are your parents, they love you but doing was they ask of you is part of the deal and not doing what they ask will be a BIG problem for you.  The schools add to this, kids can refuse to do the work until they reach a state where a MASSIVE failure is inevitable and then it it parents that have to pick up the pieces.  I think we have all been somewhat complicit and now we have young adults who by circumstance(the Great Recession) and design(the culture of YES) are stuck in time as adolescents.

      •  My youngest will graduate (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kareylou, Flying Goat

        High school in 4.5 years and I CANNOT wait. I have to keep it to myself, though, or qualify it with "I love my children to death" (because someone will think I don't?). Yes, dreams on hold for 20 years, rock on, Nancy Pelosi!

      •  I hate being a mom thread (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ice Blue

        http://www.secret-confessions.com/...
        One confession spawned a thread that is going strong for at least a year.

        "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

        by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:45:09 AM PST

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    •  I chose not to have children and (31+ / 0-)

      I have not regretted it. I don't hate kids--I've been a school and children's librarian--but I had no desire to have my own. Moreover, I am way better with kids age 12 and up than with smaller ones. I actually like middle and junior high school kids, deranged as that may sound (lots of people can't stand that age group).

      And at Christmas we had really good friends visit  for 24 hours with their 3-year-old, who is adorably cute and a nice kid--but he's a three-year-old boy, which means rambunctious, noisy and in constant motion.  When they left, I, my husband and the cats heaved a sigh of relief. I don't handle that noise level   well, and never have, probably because I wasn't allowed to be that noisy and I was a quiet, self-contained, bookish child who lived in her head--or so my parents told me.

      Some people shouldn't have children. If they are smart, they realize this before they reproduce, not after.

      What I DO resent is being asked WHY we didn't procreate, as if it's anyone's business.  And I resent the hell out of being told that we're not a family, just a couple. I want to smash the faces of people who pull that line on us.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:26:28 PM PST

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      •  The family line... (10+ / 0-)

        We recently ended our five year infertility journey with the birth of a little boy. We've been married for 8 years, and finally, at 30, have what we waited so long for.

        We've also had people say things along the lines of "I bet you can't wait to have kids so you'll finally be a family." It's such a hurtful thing to say, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

        I want to smash the faces of people who have pulled that line on us, too.

        "People walk a tight rope on a razor's edge, carrying their hurt and hatred and weapons. It could be a bomb or a bullet or a pen or a thought or a word or a sentence." -Ain't No Reason by Brett Dennen

        by aintnoreason on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:52:22 PM PST

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      •  You are the best judge or what's best for you. (9+ / 0-)

        My wife and I have one child. We might have had more, but my wife was 40 when our daughter was born, and she was pretty sick during her pregnancy.

        I've had conversations with people that start out nice, but when they start butting in to our our family planning, it's not friendly any more.

        It's just none of anyone's business how many children you have, or whether you have any at all. If someone has a minivan full of children, I'm not going to nag them about it. So why can't they leave people alone who don't have children, or don't have as many children as they think we should have?

        Either people can't have children or they have decided not to. In neither case is anyone's nagging of value.  

        The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

        by A Citizen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:56:33 PM PST

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        •  Great point... (7+ / 0-)

          It's especially painful to be asked why you don't have kids when you're struggling with infertility. In my case, my infertility (stemming from PCOS)  was a private struggle that I wasn't comfortable discussing with many people, and I shouldn't have had to.

          We are high school sweethearts who just had our first child at age 30, and when people always asked why we didn't have kids, I always replied with information about my infertility, which usually made people feel like crap for assuming.

          Minding your own business is a skill no one learns in America anymore.

          "People walk a tight rope on a razor's edge, carrying their hurt and hatred and weapons. It could be a bomb or a bullet or a pen or a thought or a word or a sentence." -Ain't No Reason by Brett Dennen

          by aintnoreason on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 11:08:24 PM PST

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      •  Same here. (8+ / 0-)

        I never liked being around toddlers, even when I was a little girl, but I like teenagers.

        I substitute taught middle and high school for three years, and spent 11 years working in the field of adolescent depression research.  I enjoyed it, but it also made me realize I never wanted a teenager living in my house.  

        My work in psychiatric research made me see how some kids are going to have serious problems, despite great parenting.  It made me think that I wasn't willing to accept the crap shoot that is parenting.  It's not like you can pre-order kids to your specifications.  Twin ADHD, oppositional-defiant boys would send me to the funny farm.

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