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View Diary: The RKBA From the Left - A Matter of Trust (375 comments)

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  •  Do you kep a straight face when you say this? (9+ / 0-)

    The RKBA arguments always start with RKBA members saying they support reasonable gun regulations, but when anyone mentions any reasonable national regulation (like full background checks on every sale/transfer, licensing/training and registration) all hell breaks loose ("we're already over-regulated, won't work, unconstitutional, slippery slope, Germany in the 1930s, you want to confiscate my guns, and on and on").

    A huge part of the problem is the mish-mash of laws that in effect negate any state's/city's right to have their own laws.  We need a standard common set of regulations that work nationally, and RKBA member always argue vehemently against those).

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:55:20 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Because your idea of reasonable isn't mine. (11+ / 0-)

      But hey, as long as you get to define reasonable, you get to keep whining about how we just won't see it your way.

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:06:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Of course I keep a straight face. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishbone, gerrilea, ToeJamFootball

      I've got nothing against full background checks for all sales, even though I know there's people right now passing full background checks who shouldn't be passing. It probably does catch a few, which is good. I'd even support full background checks on transfers, though you've got your work cut out for you on that one, especially in states with no registration requirements. Go for it.

      I favor licensing of handguns in the cities, and training to go along with (and all CC permits). I do not favor registration, but that's just me. Some cities - even in my no-registration state - do require it, though it seems to me that licensing pretty much accomplishes the same thing as far as keeping track of who owns guns. Acknowledging that it's not the same thing as keeping track of the guns themselves. With ~270 million of them already out there, many in the homes of people who won't care to register them, I think it's a fool's errand. But please, go for it if you want. Hell, I don't even mind a sincere effort to abolish the second amendment entirely. If it makes people feel like they're doing something, right on. They'll sleep better at night, though they won't get a repeal within my lifetime.

      I think the feds are going to have to deal with the states already promising to arrest feds trying to enforce federal laws in those states before federal gun laws will ever be applied in all states. Maybe that'll be a second Civil War (looks like the Yahoos are gung-ho for that, doesn't it?). At which point I'll be doubly glad for grandpa's shotgun here at the 'stead. Like I said, go for it if it makes you feel better. The effort in real life would probably do more for your psyche than lobbing insults at anonymous Kossacks who own guns.

      •  Those that think that background checks ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau, gerrilea

        will make a big dent in reducing the number of wrongful deaths don't grasp reality.  Sure, checks should be performed as they will keep guns from some who shouldn't be let near them, but passing a check is no certification that a gun owner has no mental problems or alcohol or drug addictions.  Successfully passing a background check proves only that those cleared haven't been caught committing a crime or acting in a way that warranted putting them into the mental health system.  

        And specific to the Lanza case, no law (existing or lobbied for) would authorize police to inspect the home to confirm that all weapons were secured.  And apparently no law even required personnel at the shooting range where mom and son practiced to report that a person who obviously had mental problems was being taught to shoot.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:26:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All of the proposed regulations (4+ / 0-)

          are short-sighted and practically designed NOT to deal with the real problems of the wrong people getting hold of guns. Usually known only after the fact of murder/mass murder. Funny, that's the thing about laws. They are only ever applied after the fact of violation. Even Dino-Jesus knew that much, that's why he preached the One Law.

          "Love God, love one another..." Don't claim to know anything directly about the existence of a God to really try and justify clause #1, but if we could come anywhere close to achieving compliance with clause #2 there would be no need for laws. From gods or men. Funny how that works.

          I don't guess we'll ever know what circuits tripped in Adam Lanza's brain to cause him to do something so completely pointless, irrational and heartbreaking before he offed himself. People with AS - very high functioning autistic - do NOT have "obvious mental problems." You probably know some, work or bowl with them and wouldn't consider them mentally ill, or even think to wonder. And none of them are more likely to murder you for no apparent reason than any of your other friends or family members. Or perfect strangers.

          The post-mortem of 12/14 is gonna leave too many unanswered questions, as usual. That's... tragic. The whole thing is tragic. We're all floundering about trying to latch on something we can do to stop this shit from happening. I'm not very sure we can. There's a weakness in our wiring, it's going to keep shorting out here and there and reminding us that we've got a serious problem with shadows in our psyches. That seems to come with the human territory. I am not very confident we'll ever evolve past it. At least not so long as the mass slaughter of humans is considered a 'glorious' use of human skills and imaginations. All the way to WMDs.

          That's a shame.

          •  To clarify, my reference to Lanza having ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau, gerrilea

            "obvious mental problems" was based upon the reports that he seldom, if ever, even spoke; that when he was taken for haircuts by his mother, he never said a word and wouldn't even move until his mother directed him to; that he walked as close to the walls as possible in school, avoiding conversation and even making eye contact with other students, and other behaviors that were reported that would have been obvious to personnel at the shooting ranges.

            "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

            by Neuroptimalian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:08:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I haven't kept up with all (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neuroptimalian, annecros

              the reports. Aspberger's is what I heard early on as a recorded 'issue' with this guy, combined with a smothering mother. But that last part was only hearsay and could as easily be an attempt to shift blame onto the actual owner of the guns used. Even though he killed her first.

              That doesn't explain the slaughter of first-graders to me, so something is obviously being missed. Bottom line, we don't know all the details yet. Aren't likely to know them all when the smoke clears either. Just another senseless massacre. Lord knows there's plenty of those these days.

              I truly appreciate the fear and the loathing that is being tossed willy-nilly in the desperate effort to find a scapegoat and slit its throat so we can all feel better. As a mother, a teacher, an administrator and a human being I am as horrified by what happened as anybody (except those directly impacted, of course). I have even lost a brother and a son to murder in my life, so the empathy ties are taught with deep emotion on my end. I'd love some real answers and remedies.

              But... but... given the fact that humans are what they are, it's a risky business to give a well-armed, amoral authority absolute control over the ability (and right) of citizens to protect themselves if they have to. Cops in my neck of the woods are hours away, literally. If they bother to come at all, and they sometimes don't. They of all people expect me to be able to protect my family, home and property against threats that may arise, and even as far into the boonies as you can get the biggest threat is human. When was the last time you heard of a deer slaughtering a couple dozen defenseless humans just for fun? Or a bear, a cougar, a coyote, or any other animal, ruminant or predator?

              As I said, I've no skin in this game. Nobody's coming to take my gun, and nothing out of D.C. or my state capital is going to even try. Something is obviously wrong in our society that this keeps happening. And too often from people who claim ostensibly that their guns are to fight off "government tyranny." Or at least Zombies. 20 first graders don't qualify in anybody's mind (except the crazy shooter's) as tyrannical gub'ment agents or the Undead. We need to try and fix that glitch, and if it costs you (figurative) 5 or 15 bullets per magazine clip, I'm fine with that. Really.

              •  OMG. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Joieau, gerrilea, PavePusher

                I had no idea about your brother or son.  How absolutely horrible.  I'm so sorry.

                I lost my brother to suicide a few years ago, but it was his choice to go.  I can't even imagine how I'd deal with his loss had it been by murder.  My deepest condolences to you for your tragic losses.

                "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                by Neuroptimalian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:04:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Joieau, I've seen at least three comments (0+ / 0-)

                from you in this diary which deserved rec's.  Sadly I've seen them too late to do so.

                Excellent thoughts, well written.  
                The use of 'stead, as the new 'hood, should enter the wider lexicon.

        •  There is no way to provide a guarantee (5+ / 0-)

          The closest thing that we, as a society, have is the ability to use past behavior as an indicator of likely future performance.  Past behavior is a window into one's thought process and provides clues about the types of choices they make and whether or not they have appropriate decision making capability.

          The fact is that life comes with no guarantees and this applies here.  Nobody can guarantee that you won't be hit by a bus anymore than they can guarantee that you won't be gunned down in a violent conflict.  Neither is very likely, in fact, the chances are very remote.

          This nation, being founded on the principles of freedom and liberty doesn't allow citizens to hamstring others in an attempt to achieve such a guarantee.  This is part of why the most extreme gun control proposals would be deemed unconstitutional.  

    •  Maybe that is your clue (7+ / 0-)

      that what your proposing is not reasonable. Perhaps you should listen, ask if you need clarification, concerning why what you are proposing is not reasonable.

      President Obama suggests we all put on our listening ears when discussing this issue.

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