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View Diary: The People Who Need Guns (192 comments)

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  •  What's lacking in this debate (16+ / 0-)

    is the stark and unforgiving necessity of training.  The kind of weapons that would fall under an assault weapons ban are the sort of thing that even the military doesn't issue to its personnel without first knowing that they probably won't blow their own head off.  Even a handgun does not impart knowledge of its use through osmosis; a person must study their weapon and learn its ways or they're a danger to themselves and anyone within the range that their gun can throw a slug.

    I am in general a supporter of the second amendment.  In no way do I support the marriage of ignorance and lethality.  I think we'd see far fewer problems if we instituted a system of mandatory training (through which a license would be obtained) and registration.  Maybe even insurance, too.  Basically what we do with cars.

    "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

    by quillsinister on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 04:59:50 PM PST

    •  I'm amazed that there are less restrictions on (7+ / 0-)

      cars than on guns. We license them, record every transaction when sold and maintain a database of who owns what. You need to show competence that you know how to operate them safely, and like you note, carry insurance.

      I'm not against gun ownership, but it's dangerous to have a population of gun-toters out there no more qualification than the fact that they have the purchase price and aren't ex-convicts.

    •  The problem continues to be that this is a RIGHT (7+ / 0-)

      not a privilege. Keep in mind the rather jolly argument among the founding fathers as to whether or not there should BE a bill of rights. One side of the debate believed that enumerating our rights in the Constitution would tempt people to infer from the text limits where the none were intended -- and that's precisely what has happened down the years.

      Whatever limits you impose on this right could, by analogy, be imposed on rights that are more dear to you than the 2nd, e.g., the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 14th, etc.

      YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

      by raincrow on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:20:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just because it's a right (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        myboo, bruh1, BachFan, MaikeH

        does not mean there can be no controls or limitations.  Speech and press are rights, yet we have laws prohibiting slander and libel.

        If you can show me where the founding fathers thought it would be just grand for a person with no training or accountability to be walking around with what, to them, would be the firepower of a modestly sized infantry battalion, I'll eat a bug.  Learning about guns was just part of a young man's life back then, and while there's a degree of ambiguity in the text of the second amendment itself, you can't possibly believe that the founding fathers expected us to be such total idiots on this issue, or to feel incapable of dealing with a clear dysfunction in our nation out of helpless obedience to what someone thinks they might have meant by it.  Why even have an Enlightenment if we're going to refuse to think for ourselves?  That's possibly the least fitting tribute to the framers of the constitution I can imagine.

        We can deal with this without stepping on anyone's rights; we just need to emphasize that every right comes with an implicit responsibility.

        "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

        by quillsinister on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 08:07:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not an RKBA member, I have been for YEARS calling (6+ / 0-)

      for training -- and owner licensure. But of course that doesn't fit the diarist's narrative, nor allensl's insulting commentary. So be it.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 07:25:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Owning a gun is something that (0+ / 0-)

      I have absolutely no problem with anyone doing.

      The devil, as always, is in the details - given the potential for catastrophic lethality intrinsic in a gun, caring for, handling, and storing guns present significant issues.

      I personally see absolutely no way that a gun can be kept in a configuration that is at once safe and useful for personal defense, either in the home or on your person in public.  Additionally, the training required to be competent to handle a gun in a non-firing range situation would become a time commitment (I'm thinking on the order of 10 - 20 hours per week) that essentially no one can fulfill.

      If I were ever to own a gun(s) it would be stored in a safe, with the ammunition either off-site or in a different safe.  This would be a perfectly acceptable solution for hunting, or target shooting, or collecting historically significant weapons, which are the only reasons I can see to own a gun.  The resulting situation would be quite safe in terms of what most tragic uses of guns come down to - suicide, accident, or an attacker taking it away from you and using it on you.

      If you think you need a gun for personal protection, buy a baseball bat instead - they're really quite effective at messing someone up, but actually killing someone takes a lot of work.  I am very safe in my home, NOT because of a gun (or a baseball bat), but because I have good neighbors, and I'm prepared to call 911 (which will quickly bring actual professionals, armed and able to use their guns competently, to my house if I need them).

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