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View Diary: Obama to GOP: Your move (131 comments)

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  •  People fail to understand that the Republicans (9+ / 0-)

    want to create havoc, and shutting down the government is part of their agenda.  They have been looking for an excuse to do so.  If not this time, it will be something else.

    These people are not reasonable; you guys (the left) think you are dealing with normal people.  This is a cult-like group and destroying the proper function of the government IS their agenda.

    They are succeeding, moving it forward...

    •  So perhaps we have to suffer that (8+ / 0-)

      in order for them finally to lose all political viability.

      This strategy wasn't my first choice - but it may work out for the best in the long run so long as President Obama doesn't blink.

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:22:27 AM PST

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      •  But they have a plan. This is all being done (3+ / 0-)

        very carefully, believe it or not.  Once they totally paralyze government, they will offer solutions through the "private sector" and in the chaos and confusion and pain, people will be willing to entertain any messaging that promises to bring about order.

        This is very dangerous; people are being blindsided by not understanding this.  They have an agenda, a plan, a vision, and they are almost about to bring it to fruition.

        •  Their plan, like their election, is based upon (9+ / 0-)

          faulty logic and believing their own snake oil salesmen.  This will backfire on them and on their benefactors and I believe it will hasten their decline into irrelvancy.

          •  I give you one metric you can use to evaluate (0+ / 0-)

            all this: has the rate at which wealth and income flowing to the plutocrats eased during the last few years?  Has income inequality gotten better or worse?

            •  It's not what has happened, but what will (0+ / 0-)

              happen after they shut down the government.  Sure, they tend to win whether the economy is good or bad, but their wins won't be quite so successful and they might have to put off their fourth yacht purchase this year.

            •  I think you are introducing an important point (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jan4insight, Ray Pensador, ColoTim

              that is frequently missed by many on the left and the right.  Chaos and uncertainly are frightening for people.  The reason for most failed revolutions (at least as far as the ideals of the revolution go) end up because some group is willing to come in and offer stability and safety.  Usually in the form of more repression and fear.  It's easy for people to say that crashing the economy would be a good lesson for people to learn about Republicans.  But I'm sure the true power behind Republican policy certainly understands what will happen.  And what profit can be made in coming in to fix the problems.  Very rarely in history have those "saviors" had the interest of the people at heart.  A month without government checks with the economy in flux will not be a pretty thing.  So for people to dismiss even trying to avoid crashing the economy is naive at best.  And this is without even addressing the (faulty in my opinion) concept that voters will suddenly understand that Republican policy is bad and blame them for it.  There's been plenty of opportunity for that and I don't think some real suffering will make people better able to discern the problems within the GOP.

              "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

              by stellaluna on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:00:04 PM PST

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        •  You are giving them way too much credit. (9+ / 0-)

          What little republican leadership that does exist can't even control it's own membership.

          I highly doubt that anything is going according to their plans as their plans surely did not include a 2nd Obama term.

          Instead of a grand plan, I see the opposite. A lot of short term thinking focused not on the big picture but the politics of that moment. I see small factions and influences battling for power and not one great force pushing them forward.

          They aren't winning.

          •  Very true! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            majcmb1, librarisingnsf

            They are a bunch of noodle heads and they're busy proving it. If President Obama says No! They say Yes! no matter what he's talking about. They are childish.

            In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

            by vcmvo2 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:44:22 AM PST

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          •  Also - this is not taking place in a vacuum (0+ / 0-)

            These TP clowns in their fantasy land about revolution and drowning the government...  Well - here's the thing - for far too long they've just assumed that the lumbering, slumbering left has been too fractured to take up a unified cause.  They are running on borrowed time and delusional - believing that, despite getting trounced in elections, their radical conservative agenda (to steal their phrasing) is far and away how the majority in this country feel about the issues the TP have adopted as their signature.

            They should consider very carefully what they are doing if this is a "grand plan" situation.  There will be MAJOR push back and a counter revolution that would likely bury them.  This is always presented as if the GOP is going to basically back everyone else into a corner, cut off any possible support for any and all programs, all while, you know, 150-200 million or so people sit idly by watching it all happen.  Not a chance if I have anything to say / do about it.

        •  Every path is dangerous (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          There is no completely safe way to go.

          I advocate political strategies which will lead to constitutional crisis if they fail, since failure will be evidence that our system is broken and needs to be replaced.

        •  These people are IMO domestic terrorists (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib

          obstruction kills just like a bomb can.  Maybe not as quick but kills just the same.

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:56:04 AM PST

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        •  Sorry, I have to just laugh (0+ / 0-)
          This is all being done
          very carefully, believe it or not.
          The only plan these Republicans have every had is to oppose Obama, and that isn't working out so well. They were maneuvered into having to vote for the fiscal cliff bill and they are maneuvered into having to vote for raising the debt ceiling.

          A fair number of them will also have to swallow voting for comprehensive immigration reform...and gun control.

          Yeah, they meant to do all that. It was part of the plan to lull us into a false sense of confidence. Or something.

    •  Indeed.. and all this talk of "default on debt" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      is silly.  There is more than enough income each month to pay the interest on the national debt.

      The Repubs will simply shut down very big pieces of the federal government to pay for it.  Close national parks.  Put all federal employees on furlough 2 days a week.  etc.. etc.. they could go on like that for months without defaulting one red cent on the debt.

    •  No one here thinks that they are reasonable (7+ / 0-)

      or even sane. However, the money wing of the Pubs is not in favor of default. There are enough Republicans who favor money over havoc to make sure this won't actually happen.

    •  If the U.S. Bond falls (9+ / 0-)

      so does every financial instrument in the world. The Tea Party theatrics aside, the GOP is still run by and for billionaires who have no intention of allowing their wealth to be erased in this manner. Don't confuse the goals of the manipulated dupes with the goals of their masters.

      Visit Lacking All Conviction, your patch of grey on those too-sunny days.

      by eataTREE on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:36:04 AM PST

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      •  This is wishful thinking; that the well-being of (0+ / 0-)

        the supra-national plutocrats is tied in with that of the country.  If people think this, we're in for a rude awakening. The plutocrats want to bring down the U.S. government.  Any financial loses on their side will just be cost of doing business.

        After the dust settles, you'll have them fully in control, while the regulatory framework and the social safety net would have be torn down.  That is their agenda...

        •  asdf (6+ / 0-)

          the clowns couldnt even jump off the fiscal curb...aint gonna happen, as long as Pres Obama stays firm. In the meantime, I'm gonna look for cheap bluechip stock to buy from the panickers. .

          Dems in swing districts: INSIST your republican rep incr tax on the wealthy -gerrymandering makes rep vulnerable...swing district list:

          by grrr on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:45:45 AM PST

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        •  You overestimate them on a number of fronts (3+ / 0-)

          chiefly the size of their balls.

          Too much chaos and no one, not even a plutocrat, can be certain of the outcome. It might shake out the way you describe with the rich consolidating their power; or we might experience the Second Coming Of Lenin (and I don't mean John).

          Plutocrats are already at the top of the existing order and there is no reason for them to take such risks merely to satisfy fifty-year-old John Bircher political grudges like dismantling Social Security and Medicare.

          Visit Lacking All Conviction, your patch of grey on those too-sunny days.

          by eataTREE on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:57:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  They are Neo-Confederates (0+ / 0-)

      Democracy is great as long as the people you like always win and only serve the right kinds of Americans.  If not, burn it all down and fall back on "states rights" (and we all know what that means).

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