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View Diary: He Doesn't Believe There's a"Rape Culture" (208 comments)

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  •  I would guess that a lot of date rapes (4+ / 0-)

    are at least as much about sex -- from the rapist's point of view -- as they are about power. I think there are far too many guys out there who simply don't get the fact that no means no.

    (I am not in any way suggesting that date rape is a less-serious form of rape. However, rape by a stranger and rape by one's date obviously stem from different situations; it's not unreasonable to suppose that they also result from different mindsets.)

    Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

    by Nowhere Man on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:05:12 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I don't even want to get into that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      All I will say is that it a very bad idea to have sex when you're intoxicated, especially if you haven't already established a sexual relationship with that person. I've personally never had sex with anyone where drugs were a factor and I don't think I'm missing out on anything.

      I was talking about cases where someone, known or unknown to the victim, attacks someone else and forces intercourse. Clear cut, no doubt about it rape. Even in those cases, the motivations for the act can vary.

      You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

      by Eric Stratton on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:12:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Many studies show that for the overwhelming (7+ / 0-)

      majority of rapists, it is about sex.  The "people rape for power" thing may be an attempt to reassure victims, but it's not backed up by science.

      In the overwhelming majority of rapes, the attacker is known to the victim.  Over two thirds involve impairment with substances, either willingly or unwittingly consumed by victim (why use a weapon and be fully remembered by the victim when you can target or create an impaired victim?).  Force is used either alone or together with impairment.  Weapons are used in some cases but not commonly.  

      Most people's image of a rape is a stranger leaping out of the bushes with a knife, raping a screaming, resisting girl, the attacker exuding sadism, then running off into the night, and then she runs crying and bleeding straight to the police station.  The reality is just the opposite.  In your average case the attacker a known person, often on a date, unarmed, assaulting someone who is too impaired, afraid, or in shock to fight back, the attacker usually not being any more "mean" than necessary to get what he wants, leaves the impaired or in shock victim at a leisurely pace and goes on with his evening perfectly happy with himself and seeing nothing wrong with what he did, that it was just a "date" - and odds are extremely high that the victim never reports it.

      •  You are not supporting your thesis (6+ / 0-)

        Just because it's a date rape, or acquaintance rape, does not suddenly mean it's not about power.  

        The point is that rape is not about irresistable sexual desire.  Rapists who are interviewed after the fact don't remember what their victim was wearing in the vast vast majority of cases.  

        In date rape the rapist could desire to have sex with him victim, perhaps at first out of desire.  But, upon being refused it is about power.  About contempt for the idea that the other person has the choice to consent or not, and his ability to take what he wants.  

        You seem to be arguing that some people are turned on by power, that they are sexually aroused by the lack of consent, like a fetish.  And I would say, how is this not about power?  You're just saying that there are some rapists who get sexual gratification from the exertion of power.... so rape is about power again.

        The point is that rapists don't rape because they get turned on in a traditional sexual sense.  The diarist might argue that they rape to demonstrate or feel powerful.  You seem to be arguing that they rape because raping, in and of itself, turns them on.  

        But neither of these suggest that the rape begins with 'turning on' the rapist.

        •  Who said 'irresistable'? (0+ / 0-)

          To most rapists, the event was no big deal.  So of course they're not going to be remembering what the victim wore.  Most rapists think they didn't do anything wrong.

           But, upon being refused it is about power.
          Given that the "weapon" in most cases is drugs or alcohol, rendering the person unable to refuse (unconscious or too confused), clearly that's not the case.
          You seem to be arguing that some people are turned on by power, that they are sexually aroused by the lack of consent, like a fetish.
          I'm arguing precisely the opposite of that concerning the majority of cases.  And my arguments are backed up by pretty much every study out there.  Most rapists have no preference for consensual or nonconsensual sex.  They simply find nonconsensual sex easier to acquire.  
          You seem to be arguing that they rape because raping, in and of itself, turns them on.
          I thought I was pretty explicit that it's simply sex and nothing more that turns most of them on.  The problem isn't some power or refusal fetish.  The problem is that they have a normal sex drive, but see nothing wrong with proceeding on it when their chosen "partner" is unwilling or unable to consent.

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