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View Diary: He Doesn't Believe There's a"Rape Culture" (208 comments)

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  •  Are their other traits that go with rapist? (1+ / 0-)
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    My sense is that being a rapist is not an isolated trait. We are probably not talking about guys who are otherwise awesome individuals but just have this one tiny flaw which leads them to view rape as acceptable behavior. For the most part, these are unpleasant people with a whole host of behaviors that make them someone to be avoided. The problem is that rape is something that is fairly easy to get away with, unlike say, beating up strangers in a bar, so is it the outlet of choice for certain personality types.

    It doesn't surprise me that 10% or more of men are rapist, because there are at least that many men wandering around that are just in general amoral and have no concern for anything or anyone. So unless we are talking about addressing the early life environments that increase the odds of shaping the kind of personality that perceives rape as acceptable, I don't think there is much to be done about the number of potential rapist.

    What we can do is work to make rape the kind of crime that would-be-rapist actually feel concerned about going to jail over. Right now it is way too casual a crime for many men, something akin to going over the speed limit, then something that they really think about the consequences to them if caught.

    •  It's a nice thought, but (5+ / 0-)

      everything from anecdote to studies shows that many men who rape -- not just the ones who'll admit to 'rape', but who do (& often admit to doing) things like "taking advantage of" a drunk women, pushing things a bit too far, etc. Engaging in non-consensual sex, basically -- these men are often 'just guys.' Even, y'know, nice guys -- except for the using a woman for their own sexual pleasure regardless of her opinion on the topic, rather than sharing pleasure with her. (Some of the studies/articles linked above discuss this stuff.)

      These men look like nice guys. They might be popular, might be genial, might be pleasant to talk to. What they are not, is social outcasts. (Though it's not unusual for women to feel uncomfortable about a guy when other men see nothing wrong with him. But, unless you've got a critical mass of women who are comfortable asserting their perceptions even when challenged by male opinions/'general knowledge', those feelings often stay internalized.)

      That's the problem with rape culture -- it's so endemic, so much a part of the way the social world is made up, that it isn't limited to just the sociopaths. It's not just that one person's impulse that's happening, it's an entire culture that supports (& builds) that desire.

      •  Yep--you nailed it. No one wants to believe that (6+ / 0-)

        their best buddy they watch the game with, would do such a thing.
        And the nice genial guy that hurts women? He isn't going to display his tendencies for other men usually. I mean that would just be weird.

        So what it is, you are getting two faces of one person. One is Mr Cool Popular Dude with his buddies hanging out and being generous,

        And the other is the thing that lies beneath when he is alone with a woman whom he perceives as available or vulnerable. And he knows he has it made. In the regular world he is Mr Cool Genial Guy--no one is going to believe this slut over him. And sometimes he is absolutely right, no one is going to be able to marry these two perceptions of one person together.

        Those two worlds rarely meet. So you can have men and women having completely different discussions and perceptions of the same person.

        •  yes. this. (2+ / 0-)
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          DvCM, GreenMother

          Thanks GreenMother.  You put words to something I have always felt and not been able to articulate.

          •  This is an unfortunate lesson I had to learn, and (0+ / 0-)

            so I will teach it to as many other women as possible. It's not that we don't know this--it's just that sometimes the shock and the horror and all the other emotions make it difficult sometimes to verbalize what we go through.

            I have had decades to reflect on this.

        •  People are lousy judges of character (0+ / 0-)

          But that doesn't change the fact that the guys who rape women are terrible human beings in general. The kind of guy who can do something so terrible to another human being has something really broken inside. The problem is that there are far more terrible people out there then people want to acknowledge and many of them may present as otherwise perfectly Ok guys. Teaching someone not to rape is not like teaching someone not to pirate DVDs. It is not simply a matter of learning that the behavior is wrong. A rapiest is someone who doesn't give a shit about hurting someone else is they think they can get away with it. It is insult to all of the decent and kind men out there to suggest it is just a guy thing that an otherwise nice make will engage in because it is acceptable.

      •  It's entirely possible for a person to be popular (0+ / 0-)

        and still be someone who really cares for nothing but what he wants.

        The world if full of charming, personable people that everyone likes....except those who know them very, very well. I have two relatives like this. "Fun" to be with, life of the party, huggers, just delightful....until you get between them and what they want. Then the ugliness shows up. I don't even bother to tell people about how these two really are....they simply don't believe me. (My stepmother was a big fan of one of them--thought she was wonderful--until a situation arose that showed the manipulator's true personality. Shocked the hell out of my stepmother.)

        The truly great manipulators in this world are almost always charming and charismatic, enough to make people believe what they say, and help them get what they want.

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 07:44:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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