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View Diary: He Doesn't Believe There's a"Rape Culture" (208 comments)

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  •  Not presuming (5+ / 0-)

    speculating (as I said) in an attempt to advance conversation.  No desire to pigeon hole, or suggest I view you as the enemy.  

    I think you're right that something like 'rape culture' is really difficult to define.  But, I don't know that I agree that a clearly deliniated definition is essential, where one may not be possible.  

    The point is that these issues exist on a spectrum.  Pick-up artists teach men to 'trick' women into having sex with them via various 'techniques.'  They do not advocate rape.  However, they teach people that sex is something that a man takes from a woman.  That she does not want to give it willingly, must be tricked out of it, and that taking sex from a woman is THE goal, and an achievement.  They de-humanize women, and glorifty conquest through sex.  I strongly believe that they are part of a "rape culture," although they are far from the members of the Stuebenville football team who committed terrible rape, they exist within the same cultural paradigm.  

    Of course, everything is on a spectrum.  Is the fact that the black guy seems to always die in horror movies part of 'racist culture'?  I guess that depends on how you define racist culture, and what that means.  

    There are always microcosisms and break downs within cultural definitions.  (Are we a 'racist' culture?  I mean, we elected a black President twice, but a huge portion of our population insists he was born in Kenya . . .)

    I am far from qualified to really explore this kind of question, it is part of a raging debate.  I tried to google something that did a good job discussing it, but it seems the Wikipedia definition is considered solid:

    Your original question is tricky, becuase I view rape culture and generaly misogyny as reinforcing eachother.  Part of the reason we have a rape culture is because woman can still so easily be derided as 'worthless sluts' - and that's part of the reason why my sexist boss treated me with more respect than my (slightly) more senior co-workers at my first job out of law school.  

    Strictly speaking, we don't benefit from rape culture because we are decent human beings.  Our utility is lowered, just as many white people are not happier under racist policies.  But that's not really what we mean by 'benefit' here.  A rape culture affords us, as men, additional access to places an activites that might deter women.  We are more essential in social situations, and often in professional ones.  

    I get invited to a poker game every week, it consists of professionals, and it is a great networking opportunity.  Women are not 'banned,' but I know of none who are invited.  The guys there will make very crude and offensive jokes.  These jokes exist on the spectrum of a rape culture, if we didn't have one (in my opinion) they would not be so comfortable making them (all the players are white, but I have shut down racist jokes with support, my attempts to shut down sexist jokes are met with derision, or more jokes).

    So, one, small example, is that the rape culture empowers these guys (not rapists - I hope) to joke about 'sluts' 'whores' etc.  It's about power and objectification and is built on the same building blocks as the rape culture defined above.  They then exclude women from this poker game (and probably enjoy the game more when I'm not there to put a damper on it, but some of them and me go way back - so I'm hard to cut out) - and I get a benefit that no woman could have.  

    My wife enjoys a crafting night with some female friends.  But I am fequently invited, and I doubt they make any jokes or comment that would offend me.  

    Man, if you read this far, good for you! I really do think rape culture is a tough issue.  For me, I have learned a lot by bookmarking and reading "Pandagon" almost everyday.  I disagree with Amanda frequently, and she can be very . . . blunt, in her opinions, so maybe you'll find her alienating.  But I enjoy smart people I don't agree with, and I have found the blog very educational over the years.  

    •  Re (0+ / 0-)
      Pick-up artists teach men to 'trick' women into having sex with them via various 'techniques.'
      This idea is bizarre and ridiculous and requires you to hold the sexist belief that women are too stupid to understand what is going on and can somehow be 'tricked' into sex.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 03:45:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's a lot in that comment you replied to (0+ / 0-)

        It's a pity you threw out 90% of it and derided just one sentence without even explaining why you disagree.  But then again, that seems to be your schtick here.  If someone's tearing down women's direct experience  of disdain and dismissal here, I can be sure you'll be mansplaining why he's right and we're wrong.

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