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View Diary: Center for American Progress issues 13 recommendations for 'Preventing Gun Violence in Our Nation' (205 comments)

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  •  They'll grandfather in existing magazines... (5+ / 0-)

    All it will accomplish is to put a lot of extra cash in what most of us would consider the wrong hands, and put more Republicans up on Capitol Hill.

    Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

    by Tom Seaview on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:55:05 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  If they become almost impossible for the (5+ / 0-)

      average joe to legally sell, it will still be forward motion.

      Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers/ And the falcon 'copters don't care if someone's the wiser/ But the boy in the swamp didn't know he was killed by advisers

      by JesseCW on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:59:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why grandfather them? (6+ / 0-)

      There's no rational argument for civilians to own 30-round magazines.  Outlaw them, offer a grace period to buy them back, and after that it's criminal charges if you're caught with them.  

      Yes, the gun nuts will scream, but they're going to anyway.  Rip that damn bandaid off and get it over with.

      I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

      by Russycle on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:40:17 PM PST

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      •  Why? The legislation won't pass... (8+ / 0-)

        ...if they aren't grandfathered.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:47:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bear83, Laconic Lib

          Again, I just can't see any rational argument in favor of these.  Sure, a handful of nuts, and the NRA, will argue against any restrictions, but I can't see a congressman getting up and defending hi-cap magazines.  If nothing else, at least leave the grandfathering as a bargaining chip, don't offer it outright.

          I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

          by Russycle on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:01:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And why are you so convinced that a ban will (6+ / 0-)

            accomplish anything?  Do you think it limits the amount of ammunition that one has available?  The answer is a flat out no, it doesn't.  It takes less than a second to swap magazines and it is easy to carry several of them.  To those who don't understand how they work, it sounds like it would limit the ability to commit carnage.  It isn't true and it won't work.

            Also, look at the Columbine shooting, which occurred during the last AWB and magazine capacity ban.  It didn't work then and it won't work now.  It is a losing proposition all around that only jeopardizes possible progress.

            •  You have a reasonable point in your first ... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tom Seaview, KenBee, JesseCW, 43north

              ...paragraph but the second is tenditious: Klebold obtained large-capacity, grandfathered pre-ban magazines for his Tec-9 9mm.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:19:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Which is a great argment in favor of... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Laconic Lib, 43north

              banning all removable magazines.  Period.  yeah, won't happen, but I can't see why a civilian needs a removable mag in either a rifle or a pistol.  

              But you do make a point, I concede that a hi-cap ban won't solve much and may make passage more difficult.  

              I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

              by Russycle on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:20:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ban ban ban, if only we had a ban (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                43north, theatre goon

                it would affect the criminal behavior.  We currently have a ban on things like murder, how's that working out?  

                Seriously, a legal ban is not going to restrict anyone who is not willing to abide by it.  This is especially true when there are millions of them out there already.

                Your idea also assumes that they won't be able to undo the part that makes it non removable, which would have to be some sort of mechanical hinge, pin, or tether which could be fixed with a drill in minutes.  

                Some guns do have a safety mechanism where they won't fire if the magazine isn't fully inserted.  It is typically removed very quickly because it causes other problems.

                •  Absolutely anyone can saw off a shotgun. (0+ / 0-)

                  Most people don't.

                  When someone does, then commits a crime, they get hit with a sentence enhancement.

                  "We can't stop everyone" is not an argument against a proposed law.

                  Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers/ And the falcon 'copters don't care if someone's the wiser/ But the boy in the swamp didn't know he was killed by advisers

                  by JesseCW on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:12:03 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Only way it could help (0+ / 0-)

              Is if one or more of the intended victims make a rush as soon as the slide locks back.

              It is a thin reed to rely on but not impossible.

              •  That's how the shooter at the Unitarian (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bear83, Laconic Lib, cany, RUNDOWN

                church was stopped.

                That's how the Long Island Railroad shooter was stopped.

                That's how the asshole who tried to kill Rep. Giffords was stopped.

                Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers/ And the falcon 'copters don't care if someone's the wiser/ But the boy in the swamp didn't know he was killed by advisers

                by JesseCW on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:50:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  How many of these massacres (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bear83, Laconic Lib, cany, 43north

              have been accomplished with classic Colt 1911's?

              They're kind of common.  You'd think that if they're "just as good" as a high-capacity 9 for this kind of shit, they'd be used for this kind of shit from time to time.

              Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers/ And the falcon 'copters don't care if someone's the wiser/ But the boy in the swamp didn't know he was killed by advisers

              by JesseCW on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:40:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Interesting point. (0+ / 0-)

                202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

                by cany on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 09:57:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There are .38's and .357's everywhere. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cany

                  I mean, in raw numbers, there are probably as many revolvers chambered in .38 in the US as there are Glocks chambered in 9 mm.

                  But no one ever kills more than 2-3 people with a .38.

                  When we point this out, people generally post videos of a world champion shooter emptying a revolver and reloading and emptying it again in 10 seconds, claiming that this is proof that limiting magazine capacity is useless.

                  But that's kind of like posting this

                  and saying that banning chainsaws wouldn't effect the rate of lumber harvest.

                  Machine gun bullets became the bloody baptizers/ And the falcon 'copters don't care if someone's the wiser/ But the boy in the swamp didn't know he was killed by advisers

                  by JesseCW on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:10:49 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I guarantee you that several... (7+ / 0-)

            ...congressional representatives will rise to defend high-capacity magazines.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:20:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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