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View Diary: Climate Change inaction the fault of enviro groups, report says (147 comments)

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  •  Really? (16+ / 0-)

    Do you have any idea how hard NRDC negotiators worked?

    Only in our dreams would smaller, more radical groups get the money and access NRDC gets. The NRDC isn't perfect, but this blame the enviro groups crap must stop.

    Blame the lying Koch Brothers.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:15:52 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  didn't mean to insult NRDC (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, SolarMom, Lujane

      please see my response to mindful nature below.

      You don’t want to be victimized by your lesser talents. - Gary Snyder

      by citisven on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:20:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You aren't wholly wrong, FOW. NRDC did stellar (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      citisven, SolarMom, divineorder, Lujane

      work on VERY complex air quality issues in CA, for instance.

      And I have seen them join in very good wildlife litigation with CBD and others, for instance. But they are hardly a grassroots group.

      I personally have NEVER seen NRDC organize. It's really not their thing, I guess.

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:27:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Doesn't it make sense that different groups would (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cany

        play different roles? I fail to see how that's a bad thing in of itself.

        •  It's not a bad thing. But one thing that sometimes (0+ / 0-)

          DOES happen is that a group like this fails to work with the local community and the results are not satisfactory. It's really a balancing act, and everyone has a role imho.

          However, when they don't work together, the messages sent are different, it confuses decision makers and it can cause TERRIBLE dissent between the groups resulting in long term problems for any solution and beyond.

          Let me give you an example. Say you are Indigenous and the gov plans a nasty project on lands not on the reservation, but that are nonetheless sacred to you.

          Then a group marches in with NO ties to the tribe or the land, historically or culturally, and instead of working WITH the tribe more or less acts like they just rode in on a white horse to save the day. You can imagine how that makes the Indigenous folks feel and in the past, it has NOT been an uncommon problem unfortunately.

          Rather than work on an issue separately (with hard feelings and nothing shared and often losing for everyone involved), it is far better to work together and for each to contribute at their interest/skill/knowledge level.

          For instance, I would have no understanding of the sacred importance of the land or it's cultural--even anthropological or historical--relevance. Nor would I be an expert in the science. Rather, my job would be to get everyone in a room (this usually involved working with the tribal elders and sometimes with the council and sometimes both, depending on the tribe's politics and how they chose to proceed) and talking to see how we can work together for a common goal (e.g. stop the project) helping to use the science, politics etc. in organizing with the goal of helping the tribe defeat the project if that is their goal. Differences get talked through, and usually, there are differences that have to be worked through in my experience.

          And I would generally go a lot further putting the leadership pretty much in the hands of those closest to the land, which wouldn't be me or the scientists.

          There is a tremendous amount to gain, imho, in proceeding this way and a huge mess if it doesn't go something like this.

          This kind of work is more painstaking and takes a lot more patience, sometimes, but in the end, the victories are so, so much sweeter and everyone had a hand in it and are okay with everything. It also teaches all parties involved to be respectful and appreciative of the various talents, gifts and knowledge others possess that are vital to getting it right.

          I personally believe that working in a coalition that is as diverse as possible is an absolute prerequisite for success. Eventually this may include attorneys, or other specialists.

          The same thing goes in a community fight because the community must lead. They know best what is good for them. I would be mad as hell if someone came to my community and told me how it's going to go. It's disrespectful at best.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 01:30:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  NRDC is also the reason the small rural community (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cany, willyr, mightymouse

        next to mine has safe drinking water. They filed a lawsuit and made it happen when local organizing wasn't getting anywhere. It's just not true that they're callous fat cats. We really need groups fighting on multiple fronts. When we slam a group for being good at some tactics but not others, we're ceding ground rather than expanding it. Let's hit them from all sides, please.

        •  As long as the community is okay with it, that's (0+ / 0-)

          fine, but it often doesn't go that way.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 01:32:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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