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View Diary: Abbreviated pundit roundup: Lawyers, guns and money (68 comments)

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  •  good morning! (14+ / 0-)

    Politico has a good round-up of gun polling:

    Fresh polling on guns—

    Pew: 55% favor a ban on assault-style weapons (69% of Democrats and 44% of Republicans)… By a two-to-one margin (64%-32%), most favor putting armed security guards and police in more schools. But when it comes to more teachers and school officials having guns, most are opposed (40% favor vs. 57% oppose). http://goo.gl/...

    ABC/Washington Post: 52% say the Newtown shootings made them more supportive of gun control…58% support renewing the assault-weapons ban. Cohen: http://goo.gl/.... Gary Langer: http://goo.gl/....

    Gallup: 38% of Americans are dissatisfied with the nation's gun laws and want them strengthened. This is up from 25% who held this set of views a year ago, and is the highest since 2001. Still, more Americans are either satisfied with current gun laws, 43%, or think they should be loosened, 5%. http://goo.gl/...

    Portland Press Herald of Maine: 55% have a gun on their property…79% of Mainers support some restrictions on owning guns, and 61% support banning high-capacity ammunition clips that can hold more than 10 bullets. 51% support banning semi-automatic guns. Poll: http://goo.gl/.... Notably, independent Sen. Angus King expressed coolness yesterday to an assault weapons ban: “The biggest issue to me is the size of the magazines,” he said on CBS. “That’s sort of the common thread that connects a lot of these massacres.”

    Fairleigh Dickinson University of New Jersey: 61% support reducing violence in movies and video games. 45% are in favor of placing armed guards in public places. Chris Christie yesterday: "The problem of violence is not just about guns…It's not gun control, it's violence control…We need to have a more effective way to deal with the mentally ill." Story: http://goo.gl/.... Poll: http://goo.gl/....

    NEW YORK'S STATE SENATE passed a comprehensive gun package last night. The legislation, which will be the first state-level gun law to pass since the Newtown shooting, includes measures that ban the online sale of assault weapons, limit magazines and clips and require stolen guns to be reported within 24 hours. The state's legislation now must be passed by the full legislature, which is expected to happen today. http://bit.ly/...

    and also , as usual for Politico, teh stoopid:

    REALITY CHECK: Just 4% of Americans identify guns as the nation’s top problem, per Gallup: http://goo.gl/....

    Yeah, and so what?

    http://www.politico.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:35:01 AM PST

    •  On this ... (8+ / 0-)

      the issue of armed guards at schools is not being asked, that I can see in any polls, with any context of what the opportunity cost might be.  

      Would the numbers change if questions like this were asked:

      Do you think your child would be better off with an armed law enforcement officer at their school or with two fewer students in their classes?

      Since resources are limited, should tax dollars be spent to have more teachers in the classroom or armed guards in the school hallways?

      Which will improve education more: more teachers or armed guards?

      E.g., quite roughly, a police officer and a teacher might be considered a 1-1 trade off (in the grossest simplification).  To maintain an officer at school -- including after-school activities -- will require 2 officers (at least).  

      Consider an elementary school of 400 kids, what would the impact be of two more teachers or having an art & music teacher or being able to buy textbooks or ...????

      Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

      by A Siegel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:41:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  without getting too complicated (6+ / 0-)

        ABC/WaPo:

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:47:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is disaster capitalism at work. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DRo, Laconic Lib

        The polling places will all have armed guards.  I have always voted at elementary schools.

        The teachers will be replaced by police, the test scores will go down and the police will get their pay cut.  

        The fire fighters will be asked to fill in for the police duties, because fire fighters mostly just sit around the station house anyway.

        That will leave the fire departments short.  Now we can fill in with private franchise fire departments who can hire the teachers for part-time, low-wage, no benefit jobs.

        Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

        by 88kathy on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:49:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Depending where you live, odds are you dont even (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          88kathy, skohayes, DRo, Amber6541

          have paid firefighters they could do that with. Here in Maryland, there are only 2 jurisdictions in the whole state left with paid firefighters, everybody else is volunteer.

          •  Huh??? (0+ / 0-)

            While there a good number of volunteers and communities w/mix paid/volunteer, there are more than two jurisdictions w/paid.  No?  For example, Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Howard County, Montgomery County, ...

            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

            by A Siegel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:19:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  To my knowledge (0+ / 0-)

              The only jurisdictions with full time paid firefighters (i.e. not part timers or combo fire/EMT) are Baltimore City and Cumberland, not counting positions like fire marshal or fire chief.

              •  Please check data (0+ / 0-)

                Wiki on Mont County

                Montgomery County Fire & Rescue Service (MCFRS) is the public safety agency that provides fire protection and emergency medical services for Montgomery County, Maryland. The services are provided by a combination of paid county personnel and volunteer members of the various independent, non-profit volunteer fire and rescue corporations located throughout the county.
                Salary info
                In addition to individuals who worked as volunteer, unpaid firefighters, Maryland served as home to approximately 4,705 paid firefighters as of 2008, according to the Maryland Department of Labor, Licensing and Professional Regulation. At that time, the demand for firefighters in the state was predicted to increase by more than 16 percent through 2018, creating more than 900 new jobs.

                Firefighters by County

                    Anne Arundel County served as the highest-paying area for firefighters as of November 2010, reports the MDLLPR. Firefighters in the county, which includes the cities of Annapolis and Severn, earned an average of $51,200 per year at the time. In Hartford and Cecil Counties, firefighters made an average of $50,350 annually, while those employed in Calvert, Charles and St. Mary's Counties averaged $49,900. The lowest-paying area for firefighters in Maryland was Allegany, Garrett and Washington Counties, where professionals received a yearly average of $43,450.

                etc ...

                Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                by A Siegel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:43:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Armed enforcement officer? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel, Laconic Lib, Amber6541

        How many are enough? Look what happened in California recently.  THE officer was not there that day.

        Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

        by DRo on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:57:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Several things ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DRo, wintergreen8694, Amber6541

          1.  Did make point of at least 2 to have 1 there.

          2.  Agree that numbers would likely be higher. (If an Elementary School w/250 kids merits 1 officer, how many for a High School with 2500? 2, 3, 5, 10?)

          In any event, a horrid policy choice. Yet again, treat symptoms rather than cause/problem. Problem is too many (and too dangerous types) guns in society w/too few tracking/controls on those weapons -- symptom is mass killings at schools / elsewhere.

          Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

          by A Siegel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:14:27 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's worse than that. Even if the money were to (6+ / 0-)

        come from some place other than the school budget, the right question is whether that's the best use.

        Newtown and Columbine were horrible events, but they were rare events.  If we really want to save innocent lives, armed guards in schools is probably one of the least effective ways to do it.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:27:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  see also: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thomask

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:52:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  summary (9+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:44:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Armed security guards in schools. (6+ / 0-)

      That's really comforting.
      Especially if those armed "security guards" are low-wage private security firm personnel.

      Not that a number of schools don't already have metal detectors and a police presence.  I know that my girls' schools get regular drug sweeps by police officers with drug-sniffing dogs.

      What could inspire more confidence?

      We get so stupid when something unimaginable happens.
      Truth is, big showy school shootings are rare events.  Even if armed security guards were to prevent every such event, the number of lives saved would be minimal.

      On the other hand, if you were to take the same money, maybe even the same people, and beef up police presence in some places, add supervised after-school hangouts in others, etc, you might save more than a few lives.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:25:21 AM PST

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      •  you sound like a Democrat (0+ / 0-)

        good for you.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:49:46 AM PST

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        •  No I don't. Take that back! (0+ / 0-)

          Seriously --

          I think Democrats -- at least elected ones -- have been pretty unwavering in their refusal to look beyond guns themselves for ways to keep kids alive.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:01:08 AM PST

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          •  incorrect observation (0+ / 0-)

            which is refuted today:

            Obama/Biden
            and state plans:
            NY
            CT
            CO
            MD

            And btw "Democrats want kids dead' is a pretty stupid and insensitive thing to say, and yes you did say that.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:09:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I didn't say that. (0+ / 0-)

              Any more than I've said that Democrats want people to be out of work, to lose their homes, and for their children to live lives of misery.

              Shortsightedness is a failing, but it is not evil and mean-spirited. It is merely short-sighted.

              How 'bout them Republicans, though? They sure want kids dead.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:30:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  in any case (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dinotrac

                NY and all the other states are wresting with mental health and other issues which are "more than just guns". None of which is EVER an excuse not to deal with guns (while honoring gun rights as enshrined in the Constitution).

                This is not really a partisan issue. The public doesn't see it as such.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:38:50 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  No, it isn't. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Greg Dworkin

                  Even a goodly number of politicians are figuring that out.

                  And yes, "more than just guns" should never be shorthand for "instead of our precious high-capacity high-velocity kill-at-a-ferocious rate" guns.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:49:08 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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