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View Diary: Abbreviated pundit roundup: Lawyers, guns and money (68 comments)

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  •  All three of the shooters (1+ / 0-)
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    had identified mental illness problems prior to the incidents.  In Loughner's case, he also had a verified drug issue which caused his rejection from the military.

    I concur on the issue of weapons storage.  Something in the range of 600,000 firearms are stolen each year in the US - which by definition puts them in the hands of criminals.  Requiring gun safes would be a major step forward.

    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

    by Wayward Wind on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:17:18 AM PST

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    •  That would be almost impossible to enforce (1+ / 0-)
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      Unless you are going to have the ATF doing random house searches to make sure every gun is locked up properly.

      •  Not at all, and no random searches needed (0+ / 0-)

        The lack of a safe would show up in investigations tracing weapons used in crimes, or in burglaries at the owner's house, or in any response to a domestic violence call - first thing that is asked by the cops is whether there are weapons in the house.

        I think most owners would comply; those that refuse would sooner or later be found.

        I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

        by Wayward Wind on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:26:27 AM PST

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        •  Unreasonable searches (0+ / 0-)

          Calling the police to your house doesn't entitle the cops to free rein of your property to look for things that could be illegal without a warrant or probable cause.

          •  In the examples I gave (0+ / 0-)

            there are no indication of any searches by police.  

            If a gun is used in a crime, and traced back to an owner who indicates that it was stolen, that part of the investigation would focus on whether the owner had complied with security requirements.

            If the police are called to a house to investigate a burglary and one of the items which were stolen was a firearm, the investigation would determine whether the firearm was adequately stored.

            In the case of a domestic disturbance, if the answer to the initial query about firearms is affirmative, then the police could either ensure that the weapons are secured (or in the event of a real danger, impound them until the domestic situation had cooled down).

            No warrants necessary in any of these types of investigations.

            I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

            by Wayward Wind on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:00:17 AM PST

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        •  All law presumes compliance with penalties post (1+ / 0-)
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          Wayward Wind

          discovery of non compliance.

          That is the failure of the argument that the law will be ineffective because lawbreakers by definition don't respect the law. That system is the absolute basis for our law that does not allow penalty now because one might break the law in the future.

          So, you were burgled and lost your firearm because it was not properly stored? Conviction fro breaking that law and loss of rights. That is how it is with hit and run, embezzlement, murder and all the other crimes.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:41:04 AM PST

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    •  Yes, all three had mental issues, but having a (0+ / 0-)

      mental illness does not preclude a person from being "law-abiding."  I just don't think it's "criminals, who can always get guns from somewhere" who commit these mass murders.

      "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

      by Diana in NoVa on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:39:28 AM PST

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