Skip to main content

View Diary: Texas dad freaks out and shows why it is past time we ban assault-style weapons & ammo (102 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  you are going to get the argument (3+ / 0-)

    that the AR-15 is for 'home defense' and for 'varmint shooting' - it will kill a small animal such as a prairie dog, a rabbit, or other mammal vermin, which is what 'sportsmen' claim they use their AR-15's for.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 07:10:05 AM PST

    •  except, it is not legal to use a .223 to hunt with (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook

      I know there will be many to argue the points you mentioned but a .22 is just as effective in both "varmint" hunting and "home defense"

      My point is there is no adverse affect on hunters or defenders of their homes in banning AR-15 and high-capacity ammo.

    •  .223 is a poor choice for "home defense", (3+ / 0-)

      because it is potentially leathal far beyond where you can see.  Unlike soldiers in combat the "home defender" cares about "collateral damage" . . . don't want to be killing the neighbor's kids, and all that.  That makes the AR-15 a poor choice quite apart from its annoying "cosmetics" (although some will argue that the "scary look" is exactly what they are "looking for", since the look itself is a deterrent).

      .223 is, though, a fine round for "varmint", and contrary to the diarist's ill-informed report it is quite effective for deer in the typical wooded setting (where long range is not an issue), or clearing an orchard or garden of the pests.  This I know from personal experience, and, of course, lots of other people use it and find it effective as well.  Not much point in an AR-15 for that use, though . . . a Mini-14 with a 5 round magazine is quite sufficient.

      What was your point?

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:08:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Deward, your points are brilliant, but .223 is ban (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SilentBrook

        ned because the .223 is not effective in deer hunting.

        While you may personally 'love' the .223 AR, it is not strong enough to take down a deer.

        If you are a hunter, iand you shoot a deer, it's your responsibility to be sure it dies quickly and to recover it. You don't shoot it and let it wander off to die. a .223 might kill it eventually, but not fast enough.

        •  Depends on where you are (0+ / 0-)

          the farther north, the larger the deer.

          Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Palate Press: The online wine magazine.

          by dhonig on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 09:04:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  It depends on the state (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1

          It's legal to use any centerfire rifle to hunt deer in Texas.  So a .223 is legal to use. Personally, I wouldn't use anything less than a .30 caliber rifle for deer, but I know people who use a .243 caliber for deer.  

          "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

          by Texas Lefty on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 09:50:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I have found .223 (0+ / 0-)

          completely effective, and never had one "wander off to die".  But then, I've probably never shot at a deer more than 50 yards away, certainly not over 100.  I also know people who take deer with 22 long (I wouldn't, but . . .) . . . they know how to hunt, how to shoot, and don't have a "walkaway" problem either.

          While you may personally 'love' the .223 AR, it is not strong enough to take down a deer.
          I'm not sure what you mean by that, on several levels.  First, I don't "love" the .223 . . . I find it convenient and effective for the uses I put it to.  I don't know what you put the "AR" in there for . . . ".223" is a caliber (aka 5.56 NATO, which makes practice ammo inexpensive), and describes the amunition, while "AR" is a generic catch-all for a type of rifle, or more particularly a type of rifle with a particular "appearance".  There are rifles that you'd probably call "AR" that are chambered in other calibers, and others chambered in .223 that you wouldn't call "AR" (the walnut stock Mini-14 with a 5 round magazine that I own, for example).  And .223 is certainly "strong enough to take down a deer" . . . I've done it on a number of occasions.

          Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

          by Deward Hastings on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 10:29:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  deward, the .223 is banned in many states (0+ / 0-)

            because it is not effective and legislators in those states do not want wounded deer walking around in the woods.

            Like I said, if you are a hunter and you shoot a deer, it's your responsibility to be sure it dies quickly and to recover it. You don't shoot it and let it wander off to die. A .223 might kill it eventually, but not fast enough.

            If you read my diary, and my comments, you will see that I consistently type: .223 AR-15

            .... in my comment to you I merely left off the "-15"

            I don't know what state you live in, but before you go hunting, you better make sure your are hunting in a state that has not banned the .223 for hunting.

            •  What you are "typing" (0+ / 0-)

              is simply false.  .223 is effective at taking down deer.  I know this from personal experience.  In the State where I have used it .223 is banned for "hunting' in season (to limit weekend warriors who haven't a clue) and legal for varmint (deer are classified as varmint) at any time.  Laws can be funny that way.  As I already pointed out, ".223 AR-15" conflates two different things (as you use it) . . . my .223 chambered rifle is not an AR-15.

              Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

              by Deward Hastings on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 11:02:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Deward: I am not going to argue (0+ / 0-)

                with you.  

                .... Not Powerful enough...powerful enough.

                Fact is, many states have banned hunting with the .223 because they don't want a bunch of wounded animals walking around the woods.

                Also, you wrote:

                In the State where I have used it .223 is banned for "hunting' in season
                So you hunt with a .223 that is banned during hunting season ... ok.

                you wrote:

                and legal for varmint (deer are classified as varmint)
                Really ... you think a deer is a varmint ... ok.

                I am not here to argue with you or anyone else.  If you want to think that a deer is a varmint, so be it.

                If you want to think that .223 is effective for deer hunting, so be it.

                My truck can also kill a deer, but I would not use my truck to kill a deer.

                •  "If you want to think" (0+ / 0-)

                  Well yes, of course I do.  Try to make a habit of it, in fact.

                  But the simple fact that .223 is effective on deer is not just something I "think", it is something with which I have direct experience.

                  And yes, a deer that crawls under the fence and is in the garden munching on the asparagus, or the plums, is a varmint.  And outside the fence they can be just as devastating to the native flora.  Hooved rats, I've heard them called.  I'm inclined to think that shooting them is more "humane" than poison, or starvation after they've eaten everything in sight . . .

                  Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

                  by Deward Hastings on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 12:03:39 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  TeamSarah4Choice: name one state & give a link (0+ / 0-)

              to its game laws banning the .223.

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 01:17:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  blacksheep: Indiana (0+ / 0-)

                Indiana is just one of many states that ban hunting with a .223

              •  Washington State (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BlackSheep1

                prohibits .223 for licenced "in season" hunting (probably because it is too weak for the longer ranges common on the more open East side) but not for pest control (raccoon and deer being the most common).

                .223 is legal for licensed hunting in Oregon and California.

                .223 is more than sufficient out to 100 yards with appropriate (fragmenting) bullet . . . I'd advise against it for any longer range.  At 50 yards and under (where aim and accuracy is less an issue) even pistol rounds suffice (Marlin Camp Carbine in 45 caliber, for example) or a slug loaded shotgun.  The heavier pistol caliber or shotgun may be preferred where overshoot is a danger, but IMO the .223 gives much greater assurance of a "clean kill".  

                It's a measure of the . . . oddness . . . of gun laws that deer hunting with shotguns firing slug or "buckshot" (hint hint) is banned in some places while required in others.

                Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

                by Deward Hastings on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 04:35:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Up to 100 meters I'm with you on the .223 (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Deward Hastings

                  can't vouch for it farther than that, 'cause that's what our range limited us to. It's a fine little lightweight rifle within its limits, but it does have limits.

                  LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                  by BlackSheep1 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 09:20:50 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  What are you talking about? .223 is a fine varmint (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TeamSarah4Choice, BlackSheep1

      round at short distances, and AR-15s and Mini-14s are lightweight and short.

      But it is not an in-the-house defense gun if you have neighbors or family, especially if you are such a lousy fucking shot that you need a high-capacity magazine.

      I have neither family nor neighbors so I keep medium caliber pistols handy, but IMO the best all-purpose home defense weapon (after your cell phone) would be a short-barrel, open-choke pump 12-ga. I figure if the sound of a pump action shotgun doesn't scare away an intruder, s/he is batshit crazy and needs lead therapy.

      YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

      by raincrow on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:28:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site