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View Diary: The White House Rejects Solutions to the Mess it Made. We Will Pay for it With Austerity (220 comments)

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  •  The government still shut down back then (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ek hornbeck, lostinamerica

    Kind of defeats that in reality(and was expensive) and hasn't shut down today.

    I never said this:

    This is not about Bill Clinton was GOD who made no mistakes and Obama is a wussy sell out.
    He can't say no this time because no one believes him and why should they?

    I stand by what I said in this diary. Once you open up Pandora's Box there is no going back.

    I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

    by priceman on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:13:44 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  by that reasoning (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan

      there would never be a chance to correct policy, change course, enact new regulations, and I just don't believe that.  Such an absolutist view that there is only ever one chance to do something and then all opportunity is lost forever doesn't comport with the history of the world.  There are second chances, and fresh starts and better luck the next time around.  The first attempt is rarely the only ever possible attempt.

      •  You should read the Shock Doctrine (5+ / 0-)

        and this diary. Just a suggestion. The evidence is quite strong.

        I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

        by priceman on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:27:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  you should stop deflecting (0+ / 0-)

          by implying I simply don't understand or need to read more and you need to engage when your own cites don't back up your version of history.

          There is more going on in this fight than just the debt ceiling, and the debt ceiling is a self imposed technicality from an old statute, it isn't about monetary theory or austerity or really the heart of the current battle.

          And things have changed, Obama never used the hostage argument before, we did, he just caved.   Twice now, Boehner has ignored the Hastert rule and allowed law to pass with Democratic votes, changing the power and momentum.  It won't make Obama give up on the grand bargain,  but my very strong feeling is that you all are going for the feint, the debt ceiling, which will pass without a whimper.  The real fight is elsewhere.  Obama has picked his battlefield and it isn't the one you think it is.  We both have strong opinions, time will tell.

          •  You have to take the time to explain how (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ek hornbeck, jellyyork

            Nothing has changed and everything is how I have written it. You have to do the work to explain why you think things are different but you didn't. I deflected nothing.

            Ignoring the Hastert rule means nothing.

            I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

            by priceman on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:45:36 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  actually the Hastert (0+ / 0-)

              ruling falling twice in the last two weeks is meaningful.

              It means a change in the political dynamic, it means the existence of a working and workable congress.   It means the bat shit crazy contingent just lost its absolute veto power over every action.    It isn't the end,  there are plenty of things Obama will still compromise away.   But it is a huge change in the balance of power.  

              That the power still lies with the 1% still hasn't changed, but nobody really expected they were going away that easily, did they?     This is a long war, lots of battles,  and it isn't just about creating austerity.

              Plenty has started to change there as well.    Sufficient issues are pushing a new aspect into the game, too much austerity does kill the golden goose.  Enough so that the official arms of the 1% are rethinking their own game plans.   You don't think the IMF blinking means something?  I do.   They didn't change their goals, but they realize they may be heading down a dead alley.  They are more dangerous if they moderate,   its hard to punch holes in jello.

              •  The only reason Boehner didn't invoke (6+ / 0-)

                the Hastert rule was because of the bad publicity over Hurricane Sandy aid bill and split with the Northeast Republicans. It made Boehner and the Tea Party look bad. It put Boehner's position in jeopardy. Power is everything to these people

                I doubt highly that the Hastert rule will be suspended over the debt, sequestration or any legislation in the future that is passed by the Senate.

                These radical feral children of the House are determined to have their way at any cost and the President, who wants to link Social Security to the chained CPI and cut Medicare, will give in to them.

                I don't foresee any clean bill raising the debt ceiling.

                As for an agreement about the manufactured crisis over the sequester, there will be no cuts to military spending, no new revenue and no jobs created.

                Just my prediction based on past history of the last 4 years.

                "There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say." W.E.B. Dubois, 1956

                by TheMomCat on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 01:48:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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