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View Diary: Memo to NRA: You had your chance (307 comments)

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  •  Wow, "hippie traitor" Really, sweet ROFL. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fuzzyguy, BlackSheep1

    Flattery will get you no where with me.

    I know, I know I'm a rebel at heart!

    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

    by gerrilea on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:44:14 AM PST

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    •  The Founders were clear, no restrictions on arms (15+ / 0-)

      as long as they could be carried (ie "bear arms).

      Scalia has made that perfectly clear.

      Suitcase nukes are a right protected under the Constitution for ALL Americans.  No government can prohibit them from anyone who wants one, including criminals or the mentally ill.

      The 2nd Amendment is pretty damn clear on that fact whether you or other liberals like it or not.

      Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

      by LiberalCanuck on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 09:54:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, when you show up at my house with one (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caul

        be rest assured I'll be removing it from your possession by whatever force is necessary, really.

        UUMMM, about that "bear arms" meant to wage war.

        I can wage war against an intruder in my home, on my property and against a tyrannical government to restore constitutional law, if need be.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:03:48 AM PST

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        •  Gonna be hard to fight a tyrannical government... (27+ / 0-)

          with simple firearms.  If that's the intent of the 2nd Amendment, then we should all have Surface-to-Air Missiles to protect against the drones/aircraft, RPG's for the tanks, etc.  
          Where does the arming end?  Myself, I would love to have a drone to go hunting with, send it up, look for Bambi, and baaam--venison scattered all over the woods.  Ummm fun.

          If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. Albert Einstein

          by kharma on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:28:20 AM PST

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          •  a nuke in every driveway (9+ / 0-)

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:38:06 AM PST

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          •  Exactly. I would find it much easier to protect.. (17+ / 0-)

            my home from criminals if I had a suitcase nuke in the closet.  And I would feel much safer conceal/carrying a nuke in a backpack - just in case I was threatened.

            It is ridiculous to think we can defend ourselves from a tyrannical government takeover armed only with automatic weapons.

            If every citizen was carrying a suitcase nuke, government would be afraid of the people and not the other way around.  To those who would object, well...

            "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

            Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

            by LiberalCanuck on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:38:42 AM PST

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          •  I think way too much attention (5+ / 0-)

            is being paid to the first clause of Amendment 2, and not enough to the second clause. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Caveat that of course the state (and/or nation) can and does infringe on the right of free citizens to be free whenever they prove themselves to be a detriment and/or danger to the larger community (commitment, imprisonment, etc.).

            Clause 1 does not specify that all gun owners must be militia members, it just waives at the southern states that maintained militias to ensure no slaves got hold of guns - their purpose was to prevent slave uprisings against the minority of slave-holders. Such insurrections had occurred, remember. Clause 1 was included to assuage those states' fears (that the federal government would a) free the slaves, and b) disarm the [white] citizenry) so they'd ratify the Constitution.

            "People" in the second clause isn't qualified, "the right... shall not be infringed." Shall not is an imperative ban on government-sponsored disarmament of "the people," a relatively small subset of which belonged to militias.

            •  But "the People" could have meant (0+ / 0-)

              "the People in their assemblies".

              Most of the founding fathers considered themselves educated and wise because they'd read the Bible, Shakespeare and the Roman historians.

              Look at their architecture and it's pretty clear they most closely identified with the Romans.

              So ... "People"  could  mean what Marx would later call The Masses ... though the Founders concern for paupers, 'prentices, women and landless men wasn't much greater than their concern for slaves ... but outside the NY and Mass delegations   their belief that the National Government ought to be subordinate to that of  the Several States.   (Indeed that's the premise Articles of Confederation and a good part of what made them unworkable.)

              Anyway ... State Supremacy, got it's historical trial between 1860 and 1865 --

              Civil Wars have consequences:

              And while it seemed a good idea to take away their slaves ... the landless and displaced needed their guns to displace the Natives from their land, and secure their borders against the Spanish to the South.

              So ... the logical time to repeal the Second would have been during Reconstruction ...

              But y'know  "never too late."

          •  kharma: we're supposed to fight first at the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, DarthMeow504

            ballot box, in the town hall, on the public square, with LTEs and with calls in to the radio shows and yes, dammit, with the Fairness Rule.

            In the age of Citizens United, we have to think of ways to make up for our lack of money -- citizen advocacy isn't limited to a single issue. I applaud the VP and President for today's measures not least because they're sensible and not overreaching.

            In the overheated emotional atmosphere that led so many to slander or libel a murder victim because her murderer then stole her property in order to continue his rampage, I applaud the President and Vice President for confining their EO measures to acts that do not conflict with the Constitution, and calling for Congress to act in accord with the Constitution to further ensure public health and safety.

            Now, if only the Congress will not just mouth agreement with the idea, but actually ACT ON and FUND the measures not just to enact the laws but enforce them including support for the data entry for this enhanced background check system....

            but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 04:15:56 PM PST

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          •  Are you saying that the ban on "assault rifles" (0+ / 0-)

            was to prevent a populous uprising and not to "save the children"???

            All we've ever had since 1934 is simple firearms, you do know that right?

            One pull of the trigger equals one bullet fired.

            You can believe that 2nd A is for hunting, that is your choice, it does not make it valid or historically accurate however.

            Have a great morning.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:18:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  yawn! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma, blugrlnrdst

          yeah right. That's why Buffalo is such a safe place.

          against a tyrannical government to restore constitutional law, if need be.
          That is so much cow poop.
        •  is armed intrusion a weekly occurrence for you? (15+ / 0-)

          how many intruders have you fought off?  Is the loaded gun on your nightstand?  Are there children in your house?  Are they also armed?  Do you own a gun safe good enough to deter theft?  Do you drink on your hunting trips?  How many of your friends regularly fight off intruders?  How many have been involved in gun accidents or have family members shot accidentally?  

          The reason I ask is the NRA has blocked any and every possible way to collect information about gun owners, gun deaths, gun safety, the need for gun ownership.  Must be something there worth hiding.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 12:05:21 PM PST

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          •  As for my personal experiences with fighting (0+ / 0-)

            off intruders. Yes, I was 13 when a gang of thugs tried to break into our home.  The firearms training demanded by my father saved my life and my sisters.

            We didn't fire a shot but they did leave the house under the very real threat they would leave willingly or in body bags, it was their choice...they chose wisely.

            Because of said events I will not own a firearm.  I know if it comes down to you or me, I will pull the trigger and not flinch while doing so.

            I, however, chose not to become a killer.

            So, as for rest of your questions, ask someone else, can't answer something I don't have experience with.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 08:42:44 PM PST

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            •  I was a victim of violent crime at age 18. (0+ / 0-)

              Sat in the window with a gun all night for months, until I realized they won and I had no life. Dumped the gun in the local police precinct and moved.  The only other danger I faced, 15 years later, was handled by my dogs, sweet but large and protective enough to scare off some drunken wannabe rapists.  I'll go with dogs every time, looking back I could easily have killed innocent people in my fog of fear.  Not a worthwhile trade-off for the illusion of power.  That's what guns provide, an illusion.  Data will most likely support that conclusion, which is what the NRA fears.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:54:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You may believe it's an illusion, I know better (0+ / 0-)

                it was an effective tool that showed we had force to defend ourselves against superior manpower.  

                In the world I've existed in, you must prove you have power and authority, the weak and disabled know this all too well.  

                How did we get Civil Rights passed? The weak and disenfranchised rose up, some violently, some peacefully, they had to display their force to make changes in this world, did they not?

                "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
                ~Fredrick Douglass

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:37:36 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Civil Rights movements that succeed do it (0+ / 0-)

                  non-violently.  And people die for their convictions.  That's courage.  Being better armed isn't courage, it's fear.

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:58:41 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'd really love to understand how you can come (0+ / 0-)

                    to that conclusion?  Are you basing this belief on your own personal bias, intentions and motivations when you were armed?

                    It does sound like it to me, sadly, we all don't do things for the same reasons. My father trained us to arms, it wasn't fear, it wasn't cowardly, it was what we needed to learn.  It was like any other duty we had to do. I'm not sure if duty is the best adjective here, maybe job would be better. He taught us how to grow food on a farm, how to milk cows. My Mom taught us how to clean, prep and can food for winter, sowing, making clothing, etc.

                    At the time I was trained in Karate and so were my siblings, another requirement my father demanded of us. If you don't take responsibility for your own self-defense, who will? That was his overriding understanding: "You can only depend on yourself, I will not always be here."

                    Dying for what you believe is a noble thing, if one agrees with the belief being defended, right?

                    There is only one belief that I would die for, freedom, yours and mine, if needed.  But I also know that dying a martyr is a romantic fools cowardice.  It's easy to die but much harder to stay alive and fight until your belief is realized.  I'm stubborn like that, I guess.

                    I'm no MLK but he understood the need to have force and he armed himself.  It didn't stop an assassins bullet but neither did the combined military forces of the United States stop JFK's assassin.

                    The world has gotten much more evil since those days, I do however, understand, "it is what it is".

                    Good luck, maybe you'll answer my queries of you and take a moment to move beyond your own fears and find we are on the same side here.

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:19:38 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Dogs pose a risk to the innocent (0+ / 0-)

                You can't lock them in a safe when you're not using them, they have minds of their own, and they can and do kill.

                The risk is pretty low with a well-treated obedient dog, but then the risk is pretty low with a sane careful gun owner.

      •  Well, if Scalia made that clear, (5+ / 0-)

        I can sleep soundly tonight.../sarcasm off

        No one man can terrorize a whole nation unless we are all his accomplices...Edward R. Murrow

        by maxcat06 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 11:48:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  If us hippies did what we started out (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Debby, here4tehbeer, kharma

      to do the 60's the world might be a much better place.

      I remember environment, love, peace, and sharing.

      Sigh, I miss the 60/70's.

      Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. Frank Zappa

      by Da Rock on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 07:21:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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