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View Diary: We don't all live in Newtown. But I do. (127 comments)

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  •  That said, (0+ / 0-)

    it looks to me like the only measure that might have made a difference in Newtown would be restrictions on sales of high-capacity magazines. Restricting sales and all the other measures won't eliminate the possibility that, as happened there, a person with a less-than-material connection to reality will get their hands on weapons that belong to someone else, and use them for harm.

    If the President's announcement makes it easier for Newtown parents and residents to feel that they've been heard, and that maybe fewer people in other communities will face the horror as they did, that's a good thing.

    •  They need to have armed guards protect the schools (0+ / 0-)

      1) For the sake of the children, people need to look at the full problem.  One of which is that it took the off site police 15 minutes to arrive, set up a security perimeter, and find the Sandy Hook killer --by which time the killer had killed and committed suicide.  

      Relying on offsite police does not work.  We've seen that on multiple occasions.

      2) The pump shotgun used by hunters is more deadly than the assault rifles at ranges of 25 yards or less --- and is highly concealable if the barrel and stock are sawed off.

      3) The schools have been vulnerable to massacres for over 100 years --but it is only recently that those massacres have been occurring.  I don't know all the reasons why but the schools need better defense.

      4) Even if all guns were banned, the schools are vulnerable to firebombs from gasoline.  Instructions for making improvised explosives are available on the internet.  If someone is willing to die he can kill a lot of people.

      5) Plus the government is not banning the est 15 million assault rifles already out there.Because it would have to pay for them, per the Fifth Amendment taking clause.

      6) A recent GAO report noted that the Federal Protective Service employs 15,000 armed guards under contract from private security firms to protect 2000+ federal offices at a cost of $1 billion per year.   With about $1 Trillion per year being spent on "Defense", Homeland Security, and federal law enforcement, why can't the schools be protected?

      •  Great idea (5+ / 0-)

        Turn the schools into prisons.

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 10:55:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not an honest reply, in my opinion (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          1) I didn't suggest putting the kids in handcuffs or locking them in cages
          2) Prisons don't protect the inmates
          3) The school guards should be covert --just like the federal air marshals on airliners
          3) The focus should be on protecting the kids.   There are several options for that-- gun control is just one.  

          But We should not continue to leave kids vulnerable just to promote a gun control agenda.  How are those "Gun Free Zone" signs working out?

          •  As someone with four kids in three different (0+ / 0-)

            schools in Los Angeles, I honestly have to say that I am not adverse to having an armed officer on campus. I can also say that I've never felt the need or desire to have one. Never even thought about it. Never thought it was important. Until Sandy Hook. The day a shooter enters one of my kids' schools is the day I will ask myself why the school didn't have someone there as protection. And I don't feel like getting to that point.

        •  Sacrifice kids to our sense of aesthetics --is (0+ / 0-)

          that it?  

          •  No just stupid and a waste of money (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RainyDay, Gentle Giant, BachFan

            Ask the dead at Columbine or VA Tech if armed guards helped them.  

            Oh that's right you can't BECAUSE THEY'RE DEAD!

            How did those armed guards work out for them?  Not very good at all.

            The reason it took cops 15 minutes to secure the school at Sandy Hook was probably because Newtown just doesn't have many cops.  They're not really needed there.  It's a bedroom community with no history of violence let alone gun violence.  Probably more incidents of cow tippings than gun violence.  Posting an armed guard there at considerable expense when towns and state are cutting education budget is ridiculous.  Even more so when you consider that another mass shooting like this may never happen again in Newtown so you'll be posting guards at all the schools at a considerable sum for that .001% change some wackjob will shoot up another school.  Not to mention that unless you post guards at every door it still won't prevent the rogue nut armed with an arsenal.  

            Frankly I'm sick and tired of this BS idea that was born out of a desire by the NRA to sell more guns.  You want to stop gun violence at our schools?  Well the logical solution is to remove guns from the equation, not add more.  Make it impossible for wackjobs to get them and you won't get wackjobs shooting up schools in west bumblefuck CT (no offense Greg).  It's a fucking stupid idea to post guards at our schools.

            And firebombs?  Seriously?  When was the last time you heard of a fucking firebombing incident?

            This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

            by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 11:21:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So why does the Federal Government have 15,000 (0+ / 0-)

              Armed security guards under contract to protect Social Security offices, etc?  They don't seem think "removing guns from the equation" is a good idea.

              And the failures at Columbine were the result of bad police tactics -- throwing up a security perimeter and waiting for SWAT and the negotiators to arrive --instead of doing their job and protecting the kids by confronting the killers.

              Re "When was the last time you heard of a fucking firebombing incident?" --
              are you the same brainiac that was saying "who ever heard of a school massacre" a decade or so ago?

            •  Newtown doesn't have a history of crime? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Greg Dworkin, CatFelyne

              You must have missed the "Hells Angels Murders" in the 70's, the "Woodchipper Murder" in 1986, the 2nd missing and never found stewardess from 1987, a double murder/suicide on Thanksgiving during the 90's, the body found last year in a barn basement from a murder in the early 80's.  At one point Newtown had 3 murders in 3 weeks.

              In my time at Newtown PD there were over 10 murders and countless suicides, drug overdoses and untimely deaths. The drug and burglary problem has been out of control for years.

              Newtown has a 48 person department covering the 5th largest town in area in the state of Connecticut with a population of 28,000 people.  Newtown is connected and central to Danbury, Waterbury, Bridgeport and New Haven with Rte 25 directly connecting Danbury and Bridgeport through the middle of town with I84 connecting Waterbury and Danbury through town also.

              Did I mention the State Prison located on the property of the former State Mental Hospital in Newtown?  

              Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.--Adolph Hitler

              by hwstormer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 05:29:47 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  it's an idyllic community (0+ / 0-)

                and  a wonderful place to raise kids and to live.

                It's not, otoh, some fake "leave it to beaver" town. I can remember a heroin arrest a block away the year I moved here.

                We (the medical community; I'm a pediatrician) work with law enforcement pretty closely, as well as with the surrounding towns and city of Danbury in the Housatonic Valley region.

                The comments above by hwstormer are, again, right on the money.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 06:17:05 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  how many time are you gonna cut-n-paste the same.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ranger995, I love OCD


        Seems I read it in the last gun control diary I looked through.


      •  a learning environment (5+ / 0-)

        does not include guns. The part of your brain that processes seeing guns cannot help but dampen the part of your brain that is open to learning. Sorry, this is a Very Bad Idea.

      •  Because in order to guard every public school (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        you are looking at a guard force of over 1,250 000 people. Salaries for those people (and if you want good people, you have to pay them) and tech support, weapons, insurance et cetera, would end up with a total cost of $250 Billion/year. That's 1/3 of the Pentagon's budget. It's half of the non-Pentagon budget. We can't get more than a couple billion, TOTAL, for education, but we'll cut loose $250B for guards?
        Where is it going to come from?
        (Let's see, 300 000 000 guns into $250B/Y, how about a tax of $833/year/gun, every gun? Think gun owners would step up for that?)
        BTW, that GAO report works out to $67k/year/guard, That's kind low pay (considering that includes all the costs of employing them, not just their pay) for someone you expect to put their life on the line, idn'tit?

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 11:25:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wrong. There are 132,656 K12 schools. If you (0+ / 0-)

          paid two teacher volunteers  to take the two days of training required by the Federal Protective Service and gave them a $5000/year pay supplement for duty they would likely never have to perform, then you could have two armed guardians per school for $10,000 per year --
          total cost of $1.3 billion per year or about what we are paying private security firms to guard federal bureaucrats.

          Out of a "Defense/Homeland Security" budget of
          almost $1 Trillion per year.  

          •  Nope. Sorry. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cali Scribe, luckydog, BachFan

            Teachers are NOT armed guards and should not be.
            And 2 guards per school isn't enough. Open campus schools would need dozens of guards, or they'd have to wall up the place, like a prison.
            And paying teachers $5000 a year to risk their lives is insulting. Particularly when they can't get a $5k raise for increasing their teaching skills. Right now, states are trying to find ways to CUT teachers' salaries.
            Making schools an armed camp is not AT ALL the right way to go. Making the outer world safer by reducing the easy access to slaughter weapons is far more effective and in the long run, cheaper.

            If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

            by CwV on Wed Jan 16, 2013 at 11:48:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Teachers are Renaissance Men (and women) (0+ / 0-)

              1) The Federal Protective Service requirements for giving a gun to a contractor guard are that the guard (a) pass a background check (which teachers already do) (b) have a GED or high school diploma (which teachers already do) and (c) take 2 days of training.  Look at the Commerce Business Daily contract announcements.

              It is absurd to argue that teachers could not handle this job.   We heard the same thing when airline pilots and copilots were armed.

              2) Of course, I think the teachers would have to be volunteers but the duty in no way conflicts with their job.
              The $5000 /year supplement seems reasonable given that they are unlikely to ever have to perform.

               And it doesn't seem reasonable to have a full time guard in most schools because most schools face a very low probability of having a Sandy Hook incident.   The Guard would have nothing to do.

              3) The "armed camp" charge is absurd -- no one is suggesting putting up razor wire and machine gun emplacements.  

              4) It would take about 30  seconds for such guardians to sprint from one end of the school to the middle --far better than the 15 minute response time of the police at Sandy Hook.   Even better would be a surveillance camera monitor in the principal's office and a code over the intercom that would tell the first responders where the intruder is.

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