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View Diary: Magic tricks, loopholes, government shutdowns and the debt ceiling (158 comments)

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  •  In the short run it looks bad, but not in the long (6+ / 0-)

    run.

    I've been a critic of the way Obama has (or hasn't) done certain things. However, I think I see him actually painting the republians in a corner in this instance. In essense I think he is calling their bluff. He is letting them run with it to expose them to the American people as the frauds that they truly are.

    In the short term, if the debt ceiling drama doesn't get resolved, some folks are going to suffer and that is unfortunate but probably necessary. In the long term I think the Republican's stranglehold on getting policy passed will be deminshed for a very very long time.

    When I cannot sing my heart. I can only speak my mind.

    by Unbozo on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:40:59 AM PST

    •  I think the debt ceiling drama (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unbozo, Gary Norton

      has basically been resolved.

      I think the confrontation comes on the sequester and the budget and, probably, a government shutdown.

      •  Why? (0+ / 0-)
        I think the debt ceiling drama has basically been resolved.
        Why?

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:03:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  GOP has come up with their 3 month fix (0+ / 0-)

          after that comes gov't shutdown.

          •  Yes, but... (0+ / 0-)

            But if the WH and other Democratic leaders are to be believed, the 3-month fix won't pass, as it's not even remotely a clean bill.

            And even if it does pass, it requires a passed budget that comes out of the House.

            Likewise, even if it does pass, the whole debt ceiling thing comes up again before Independence Day. That not backing down, that's a can-kicking for tactical reasons with a miniscule real effect on the debt ceiling as leverage.

            I'm not sure why we're treating this doomed GOP focus-grouped PR proposal any different from the doomed focus-grouped PR proposals that have come and gone in the past.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

            by Addison on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:29:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, if Obama really holds firm, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, 3goldens, Capt Crunch, Creosote

      this is the strategy for how it goes down.  The Republicans will be under massive pressure from their corporate masters when the economy begins to tank. But the key to it all is Obama holding firm and not being seduced by visions of a "grand bargain." In a way Obama is painted into a corner too -- he has to stand firm or be rolled and lose massive amounts of political credibility.  There's no other way out and the stakes are enormous.

      •  If the economy 'begins to tank'... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw, Creosote

        ...then it's already too late to save the economy.

        The economy is a really, really big boat. If you, from your vantage point on shore, can see that it's heading towards a bridge piling, it's probably too late to keep it from hitting. And if you, from on shore, can see that it's beginning to sink, then it is just plain totally fucked.

        On the other hand, it's really easy to sink a big boat. Some explosives in the hold, and bam. As with anything useful, it's a lot easier to destroy it than it is to save it.

        •  This Country Needs a Cattle Prod (0+ / 0-)

          Our democracy works at a glacial pace until the shit hits the fan. Then things can happen very quickly if enough people become personally involved.

          I'm afraid it may have to come down to letting the sequester/shutdown happen and then let the public determine what's more important: restoring basic services that most citizens need or spending needless defense dollars that impact a relatively few workers in the M/I complex.

          I think/hope most people will focus on getting a return for their tax dollars as opposed to throwing billions into the M/I sinkhole. People also have to ask themselves if we are really face such a dire existential threat to justify spending on this level.

      •  The Republican brand is already damaged (0+ / 0-)

        More important than their corporate masters is the lose of credibility from the public. If things play out the way I envision (abet I could be wrong) not only will the Republican's brandd be damaged, but their main propagada machine ( aka FOXNEWS) will go down with them.

        I think we're already seeing early signs of this, but I'm not ready to breakout the champagne and declair VR-Day (Victory over the Republican's Day) jujst yet.

        Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping Obama doesn't pull the rug out from under me.

        YMMV

        When I cannot sing my heart. I can only speak my mind.

        by Unbozo on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:38:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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