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View Diary: Obama pulls out the stops in weekly address to urge curbs on gun violence (88 comments)

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  •  Meanwhile, empirical evidence, aka (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Naranjadia, nominalize, blueness

    actual reality--not emotionally driven, irrational, or illogical lashing out--indicates quite clearly that countries with very strict gun controls have fewer gun related deaths than America while at the same time having a population that can own firearms if they really want to. So the 2nd Amendment wouldn't be violated, in other words, even with very strict controls.

    •  great (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      but empirical evidence also shows that their murder rates were already below ours to a similar or greater degree before they passed strict gun control.

      so, the evidence does not suggest causation.

      the purpose of the second amendment is to promote a well-regulated militia, in the same sense that the purpose of the first amendment is to promote a well-informed electorate.

      by happymisanthropy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:15:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Notice the shift from "gun related deaths" to the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        more general "murder rates."

        It's like they can't help themselves. Shift goalposts, make a bunch of irrelevant analogies to alcohol or cars as if either of those had as their sole purpose to slay living things, and just equivocate or obfuscate their way through an argument.

        In their natural setting these addicts, dear reader, can't help themselves but to reach out to any irrelevancy or fallacious syllogism to justify their strong emotional, irrational need to possess instruments of death.

        •  If you think there is a difference (0+ / 0-)

          between someone murdered with a gun and so done murdered with a car and vodka, please be tactful enough not to share your opinion with the families of the victims.

          Studies also show that countries with more car ownership have more car-related deaths......

          I think I read that in the pages of 'Duh' magazine.

          •  Your comparison is intellectually (0+ / 0-)

            bankrupt and dishonest. There isn't any valid connection between drunk driving and shooting people. None. It's literally that simple.

            What's more, even if there were a connection, it's a ridiculous argument for gun "enthusiasts" to make because we heavily regulate ownership of cars and use of alcohol. So, by all means, continue to make the completely bogus connection if you like, but understand that it doesn't change the core point: that gun ownership ought to be heavily regulated.

            •  Sorry the facts disturb you. (0+ / 0-)

              Drinking and driving is a choice, no less than pulling a trigger is.  They can both cause murder.  The difference is that there is never a good reason to drink and drive, literally never.

              In that sense you are correct, there is no comparison that is not bogus.

              As for regulation of automobiles vs. firearms, both are heavily regulated, but only one is a civil right guaranteed by our to guess which one it is?

              Hint: it isn't the one that kills vastly more people than the other.

              •  You haven't presented any facts. You have (0+ / 0-)

                presented a piece of statistics trivia coupled with a bogus analogy that makes your condescension hilariously ironic, considering you haven't actually advanced an argument.

                •  Is this the full substance of your retort? (0+ / 0-)

                  Or do you actually have an argument to make?

                  My argument is clear: those murdered by automobile are no less dead, nor were their lives less worth saving, than those murdered with firearms.  There are vastly more people murdered by automobile than by rifles of all sorts (including those not likely to be targeted by Sen Feinstein's imminent bill).  I will go further: since, on average, 27 Americans are murdered by drunk drivers every day, yet gun banners have not led the charge calling for mandatory breathalyzer lockouts or a ban on standard capacity transportation (or indeed expressed any degree of discomfort with this massive loss of life), their motives in this ill-starred assault on our civil liberties are at least suspect.

                  As for your argument, is there more to it than mere hoplophobia?  Will you conflate murder with suicide or justifiable homicide?  Will you recognize that rifles of all sorts are less likely to be used to ruder anger human being than hammers and clubs?

                  I hope to find out presently.

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