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View Diary: Two (more) Reasons People Won't Flock to Church (68 comments)

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  •  Not exactly. (2+ / 0-)
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    BoxerDave, Cali Scribe

    We have a situation here in Maine where the former Dean of our Cathedral was arrested for passing drugs to two prisoners. The Canons of the Episcopal Church and of our Diocese dictate an automatic suspension and hearing and 100 percent cooperation with law enforcement. These canons are not new nor are they a reaction to the Roman Catholic abuse scandals.

    Some religious organizations have integrity in these matters, and the Episcopal Church is one of them.

    As for "bad people" hanging out in churches, I think there is some truth to that. Often, they are doing so to try to "fix" themselves.

    I do not think this priest is evil. I think he is sick. If he broke the law, he should be held accountable, and he also should be afforded the same dignity we would afford anyone else with addiction and sex abuse issues. While behind bars, of course.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:58:00 AM PST

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    •  The priest may or may not be evil.... (1+ / 0-)
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      (and by stating that, yes, I am one of those people who believe that some people are evil, a proposition I realize not everyone will agree with......sadly, the mental health field calls evil people psychopaths, but by giving them a psychiatric label that only serves to confuse mentally ill people with evil people)....the ex-CT priest may have somehow become addicted to meth and then to have begun dealing it to pay for his addiction.  That's possible. That would be addiction-driven behavior, not evil. It doesn't explain him owning a business while receiving free legal counsel (and thus keeping a legitimately poor person from having counsel).  

      I will disagree with you, if you are asserting that the ex-NC pastor is not evil.  A serial pedophile; that's evil (also the psychiatric community co-opted that word and turned it into a mental illness, but preying on people and damaging them is evil, it's not anxiety or psychosis or depression...those are mental illnesses not forms of evil). And as for his replacement, I suppose she was just standing by a congregant.  Still, her quote was repulsive in that she was bringing the press into the story.

      Failure to Publicize Acts of Hatred Only Allows Them to Fester and Metastasize.

      by BoxerDave on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:13:05 AM PST

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      •  IMO as a clinical psychologist who did research (3+ / 0-)
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        BoxerDave, Betty Clermont, commonmass

        with imprisoned psychopaths, group counseling with prison inmates, and years of forensic evaluations, not all people who habitually do evil things are psychopaths.  (Not believing in metaphysics, I don't believe there's any such thing as an "evil person" any more than I believe in Satan, who is basically a projection of the destructive and sadistic impulses in all of us.)

           It's a layman's  over-generalization to call all such people "psychopaths"--e.g., during the election many people here called Romney a psychopath, by which they really meant that he was a real dick with a plutocratic point of view.  No competent psychiatrist or psychologist would call Romney a psychopath.  Similarly,  Hitler may or may not have been a psychopath (his military record actually suggests that he probably wasn't) but Goebbels almost assuredly was not.  However, he obviously lived a pretty evil life.  

        As to the original diary, it's not just the obvious, outrageous violation of Christian ethics by Church functionaries that drives people away from religion, but also churches' more chronic failure to live up to the more difficult ideals pretty explicit in the Gospels.  If science and philosophy hadn't led me to agnosticism, about the only "churches" I could tolerate belonging to would be the Friends or the Unitarians, who, of course, believe in, at most, only one God anyway.  

        •  Thank you for your post.... (2+ / 0-)
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          Buckeye54, commonmass

          ....we can certainly have our differences of opinion about whether evil people exist or not (or whether there is an afterlife), for sure.

          As a psychologist at some point you became aware of all the research on doing therapy with anti-social personality disordered people and those deemed psychopaths:  therapy only makes them better at committing their evil acts, to fly under the radar to not get caught?  This research only strengthens my beliefs that mental health professionals have overreached in labelling evil people sick and have done little to help society deal with them.

          Failure to Publicize Acts of Hatred Only Allows Them to Fester and Metastasize.

          by BoxerDave on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:58:48 AM PST

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