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View Diary: "I have a gun, so I can speak" (52 comments)

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  •  What's your sacrifice? (15+ / 0-)

    You are trying to control the actions of other people, asking people to make a sacrifice, and you aren't offering anything in return, you are not sacrificing anything that you treasure.

    You can say whatever you want, of course.   And, the people you are making demands of and asking favors of will pay as much attention to it as they do to all the various peoples with their hands out saying, "gimme, gimme, gimme."

    Perhaps instead of focusing on what you want other people to give up for your cause, you should be talking about what sacrifices YOU are willing to make for your cause.    

     

    •  Sacrifice? (2+ / 0-)

      This isn't snark - I'm truly trying to understand your point.

      Perhaps instead of focusing on what you want other people to give up for your cause, you should be talking about what sacrifices YOU are willing to make for your cause.  
      I sacrifice every day - we all do. Every time we participate in a civil society. Every time we walk out the door and hope to not be shot. Or hit by a car. Every time we pick up a phone (hello, Patriot Act). Every time we engage with another person who we hope will also act responsibly.

      I love the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - all of them. I just think we need to make the larger argument .

      The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

      by themis on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:04:34 AM PST

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      •  Not snark (14+ / 0-)

        You asked why people don't seem to be paying much attention to your input on the subject of giving up the right to bear arms, when it is a right that you don't exercise, and you don't value.

        It's like saying, "Here.  Take Harry's car.  He doesn't need it."

        And, Harry is standing there, saying, "WTF.  Yes, I DO need my car, and please don't give away my stuff without asking me first."

        Listen, I'm not debating guns with you.  I don't really care that much about the gun debate because I don't think a little ole' assault weapons ban is going to stop school shooters for a second, but I'm willing to watch people try if their heart is really in it, and not stand in their way.  

        But, you asked why people don't seem to listen to you when you try to give away something that other people care about, that you DON'T care about, and I answered you, because the answer is really, very obvious.

        There is WAY too much emphasis in this country, on solving problems, by fixing THOSE PEOPLE.   Instead of solving problems by focusing inwards, and each of us asking OUR OWN SELF, "What can I sacrifice?"    I suspect that might be one of the great sources of conflict and stress in this country, too many people trying too hard to  "fix" other people.

        You are making this classic move, saying "those other people" are the problem, and if we just fix "them", the problem will go away.   The people you are talking to have never shot anyone in their lives, and are quite confident that they never will.  And, you wonder why they aren't waiting with bated breath to hear what you think they can give up, what they can do better, to solve this problem, without saying a word about what YOU are willing to give up, what YOU are willing to sacrifice, to solve a problem that you insist that you care about.

        It's a pet peeve of mine, that the first thing people want to fix, when there's a problem, is someone else.

        If someone asked me, I would say that the best solution is for each person in this country to ask themselves, "What is one thing I can do, each day, to increase that chance that a shooting might not occur?"  

        You might become a "Big Brother" or "Big Sister".   You might volunteer as a basketball coach. You might purchase some free trigger locks and pass them out.  You might get rid of your gun, or install a gun cabinet.  You might find a kid and spend some time with that kid and teach them your own beliefs about firearms, whatever they are.   You might donate to a mental health clinic in your area, or to a social organization that provides family services, or vote against a tax cut in your community that funds the fire and police.   There are a MILLION things you can do to help reduce the chances of the next big shooting.  

        Your big idea is to give up something you don't care about, on behalf of other people.  

        It's no wonder that people aren't listening.  

         

      •  Sacrifice is the 100k people shot every year at (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bisbonian, themis, shaharazade, CwV, WakeUpNeo

        the altar of the gun Cult.  How many more Americans must we sacrifice before we take back our Government and pass some sensible national regulations like FULL background checks on EVERY firearm sale/transfer, licensing and registration?

        Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

        by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:44:16 AM PST

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        •  BTW, "only" 30k + die, the others are treated at (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          themis, shaharazade, CwV, WakeUpNeo

          ERs (at a very high cost to all of us) and many have to live incapacitated because of it.

          And before the gun cult agents jump on it, the 30k + does indeed include suicides, because in my book a suicide is still a tragic death and not a "life choice" as they like to call it.

          Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

          by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:46:35 AM PST

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    •  I am not willing to sacrifice my grand-daughter (4+ / 0-)

      in Kindergarten for YOUR cause.

      When banjos are outlawed, only outlaws will have banjos.

      by Bisbonian on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:02:20 AM PST

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      •  It's not my cause (13+ / 0-)

        It's not my cause.  

        Do whatever you want about guns.

        My beef is with people who don't take any personal responsibility for the problem facing kids in our nation today.   You can't lay all this on gun owners.   Kids are walking around being bullied, bleeding, cutting themselves, fantasizing about murder, and no one lifts a finger until they snap, and then they blame it all on the NRA.

        I don't like the NRA. But, I can see the finger pointing and the magical thinking.  As long as the diarist's solution to a problem is that someone else should do something about it, the diarist ain't gonna get no respect and there's a reason for that.   He's pointing a finger, and saying "It's all your fault", and not asking what is his own part in this, and what he might do to fix it.    When the diarist is willing to make a personal sacrifice to admit his part of the problem, and become part of the solution, he will have my respect.

        •  If anything, I lay the blame (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shaharazade

          on all of us. We, progressives, liberals, Democrats, are notoriously bad at arguing our point. I used the gun regulation debate because it is what's in the news right now. I could, and do, make the same argument about any of the issues I listed in my diary.

          My only point is that we, all of us, should not dismiss a good argument from anyone just because they don't have personal experience with whatever is being discussed.

          (and just for the record, I'm a woman)

          The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

          by themis on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:23:41 AM PST

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          •  a piece of the puzzle (9+ / 0-)

            I see your concern.   I listen.  I often even observe the point is valid.  And then often, I still disagree.   I listened.  I didn't dismiss.   I just wasn't convinced.  

            Apologies for the incorrect gender.  I don't always research the diarist by going to the profile.  Perhaps I should.   I just use the standard masculine pronoun by default, if I did not do that research.

            I err on the side of NOT outlawing things, and restricting options for everyone, unless we're sure that it's the right choice for EVERYONE.   This is a popular position for Dems on abortion, and a less popular position for Dems regarding gun control.  I think gun control is a funny issue for that reason.  Dems are arguing for more restrictive laws and Republicans are arguing for constitutional rights.  What are the odds?    There's something wrong here.

            I've lived in a city, in the suburbs, and on a large ranch.   The issues, concerns, cultures, lifestyles, dangers, are so very, very, very  different, on so many subjects.   It's fascinating.   And, so many people are holding such a small piece of the puzzle.  It's like holding something in the dark, and now knowing if it's part of a turtle or part of an elephant.   It's not that I dismiss it.  I just see it as such a very small piece of such a huge puzzle.   I may even agree with the view point, but in context with the larger picture, it's not the deciding factor.    The person often feels dismissed, but I feel it's because they didn't have the sense that they convinced people, and they didn't convince people because, while they do have a point, other people have a point, too.  And, often, they themselves dismissed what other speakers from where the other half lives had to say, even while complaining that they, themselves, were dismissed.

            So, is there a difference to you, between being dismissed, and people listening to you, but not being convinced?

            •  You're right, it's a BIG contradiction ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PavePusher

              to typical positioning:

              Dems are arguing for more restrictive laws and Republicans are arguing for constitutional rights.  What are the odds?    There's something wrong here.

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:26:59 PM PST

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      •  Give Up What Now? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        43north, gerrilea
        Perhaps instead of focusing on what you want other people to give up for your cause, you should be talking about what sacrifices YOU are willing to make for your cause.

        Let's turn this around: What would I, as a gun owner, have to give up if there were to be better protections against public gun violence?

        We don't own an assault weapon, just a 30-30, a .308, and a .22 six shot revolver. We are adamantly against assault weapons, big magazines, guns in public unless registered - carry permit or not, gun purchases by anyone without tough and throrough backgroung checks. What do you want us to give up?

        "We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other." ~ RFK

        by paz3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 01:55:32 PM PST

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    •  I am intrigued by your ideas... (4+ / 0-)

      ...and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

      by Tom Seaview on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 01:59:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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