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  •  Our hands are currently tied by an archaic (5+ / 0-)

    provision. Our access to self determination today is being seriously curtailed by events and decisions more than two hundred years ago.

    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

    by oldpotsmuggler on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:54:14 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's the not the elapsed time (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpotsmuggler, Glen The Plumber

      It's the completely different society -- urbanized, with a standing army and professional police force.

      •  But human nature hasn't changed. (0+ / 0-)

        So the elapsed time really doesn't matter. Neither does the residential density. Dense, scattered, the people are still people and people haven't changed.

        We are struggling against a return to feudalism of the 1%. During the first feudal era the peasants without horses and armor were oppressed by the nobles who hired law enforcement that wore armore and rode horses.

        It's up to you, in at least some small way, with what we shall face the 1% nobles of this next threat of feudalism.

        It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not gun control, it's people care.

        by JayFromPA on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:50:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let's just say it ain't going to be a shooting (0+ / 0-)

          confrontation, because no one could possibly win something like that in the context of the modern U.S.

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:52:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  At some point it will. (0+ / 0-)

            Become a shooting confrontation, that is.

            Historically, the labor movements have a lot to show us about what's to come.

            Pinkertons shooting workers if they strike and only retreating under the strikers returning fire, for one.

            Strikes that lasted a year with just a little physical violence were possible when people could live off the land and there weren't other avenues for the 1% to punish them. One such other avenue was in the Matewan story, where mining 1% overlords tossed pro-labor families into the street and bulldozed their homes, threatening to do the same to any who took in the newly homeless and penniless. Good luck with that now. There has been such consolidation of farmland under conglomerates such as monsanto that there are relatively few family farms around to take on a couple hired hands. There has been such a squeezing of income that any disruption drops families into a state of not having anything left to lose - and if there's nothing left to lose then there's not really anything to deter some truly stunning plots.

            There was the taking of chevy 4, the plant that made all the chevy engines, where after standing firm against the attempt at starvation and freezing and gassing over several days the strikers said...

            "…The police of the city of Flint belong to General Motors. The sheriff of Genesee County belongs to General Motors, The judges of Genesee County belong to General Motors.... It remains to be seen whether the governor of the State also belongs to General Motors. Governor, we have decided to stay in the plant. We have no illusions about the sacrifices which this decision will entail. We fully expect that if a violent effort is made to oust us many of us will be killed and we take this means of making it known to our wives, to our children, to the people of the state of Michigan and the country, that if this result follows from the attempt to eject us, you are the one who must be held responsible for our deaths!"
            Emphasis mine, to point out that such violent efforts against labor were not unknown. That such a thing was contemplated regarding the most important manufacturing plant for a nationally known company leads one to consider that violent extraction efforts such as pinkertons storming striking labor plants of smaller size/importance was known well enough to be expected.

            Nowadays the local cops have full-military gear funded by the homeland security, just sitting there doing nothing until labor issues provide a 'disorderly event'. Look at occupy. Look at protests at wto events. Look at protests at anything economic/labor.

            When it gets bad enough that people start saying "screw it, anything is better than this", that's when it becomes a shooting confrontation.

            It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not gun control, it's people care.

            by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:59:40 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  i hear where you're coming from, and I agree (0+ / 0-)

              with your reading of labor history, but I just think that enough has changed that we don't need to go through some vast night of ugliness on this one to be able to reach a better place.

              There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

              by oldpotsmuggler on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:03:45 AM PST

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              •  Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. eom. (0+ / 0-)

                It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not gun control, it's people care.

                by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:03:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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