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  •  MBNYC - moving towards more emotional ground? (12+ / 0-)
    involving twenty toddlers shot to literal pieces
    Twenty elementary school-aged children IS bad-enough.
    Toddlers by definition is that 2-3 year old stage between rugrat and walking.

    Kindly refrain from citing babies slaughtered in their cribs.

    Adam Lanza could have killed 24 people with a hammer, wedge and machete, all from the local Ace Hardware store.
    Smash your way in, hack those who get in the way, pick a classroom to enter and wedge the door shut.

    To those saying he couldn't, as guns aren't personal, like edged weapons?  That killing is easy, as you don't SEE the carnage?

    You DO in a classroom, where it's up-close.
    This isn't bombing Dresden from the air, watching the little winking dots of fire spread and connect.

    This IS personalized killing.  He saw very well the carnage he caused, and it made him content, satisfied.  I've met a mob hitman, who could have shot his victims, but liked the "crunch of hitting them better".

    Only part of the Sandy Hook slaughter was directed at the children.
    People like Lanza want to hurt the ENTIRE community, and the best way was to target the children.
    It's a well-recognized terror tactic, used world wide.

    •  Are you seriously arguing (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MBNYC, earicicle, Sandino, lyvwyr101, Smoh

      that there is no difference between the number of people who can be killed in a limited amount of time if you use a hammer or an AK-47?

      If the Republicans ever find out that Barack Obama favors respiration, we'll be a one-party system inside two minutes. - Alan Lewis

      by MadRuth on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 09:55:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  MadRuth, the hammer drives a wedge into the door (4+ / 0-)

        preventing opening from inside or out.  It's a five second thing.
        Keys won't work, you have to destroy the door, or breach the adjacent wall.
        It was a technique I learned from the Columbians, when the NY cocaine wars were raging.  You could scream, cry, plead for your life; while your neighbors, associates, family and police were powerless to come to your aid.

        Machetes don't require reloading, nor do they jam.
        Thousands AK-47s were available in Rwanda, and yet the majority of deaths, terrorism by amputation, rape at pain-of-dismemberment was at machete-point.

        All of these were tools and techniques of terrorism, and Adam Lanza sought to terrorize Newtown, CT in the most profane method possible.  Not at all unlike the Rwandan genocide, not at all unlike the Columbian hitmen.  Target the children, and make them really suffer.

    •  Oh yes. (4+ / 2-)
      Recommended by:
      alain2112, Sandino, lyvwyr101, Smoh
      Hidden by:
      PavePusher, VectorScalar

      A lecture about terror at a New Yorker from outer Buttfuck, Montana - or some other militia refuge - complete with murder porn.

      Please, post more often.

      Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

      by MBNYC on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 10:14:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

        •  < eyeroll > nt. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sandino, lyvwyr101, Smoh, Lost and Found

          Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

          by MBNYC on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 02:54:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lecture on Terror to a NYC resident? Oooh. (4+ / 0-)

            My bad.

            I lost six former co-workers in the Twin Towers.
            All wore FDNY gear.
            I looked into the hole made by the WTC bombing, wearing my black and yellow bunker gear.
            What else do you need?
            Henry Hudson Bridge tokens?  Still have them. Worthless.
            Directions across the Triborough? Where are you starting from?
            Opinion of the Jamaican Restaurant corner of Greenwich and Perry?
            The stops of the 4-5-6?
            What happened at the 77 precinct?  Where the 77 is?
            What the non-descript building a half block away, same side of the street held?
            Why stopping off on Jerome Ave. after a Yankee game is like writing "mug my ignorant white suburban ass - I dare you".
            Unless you're on the eastern most end of Jerome, then you best speak Yiddish.

            So go ahead, school my ignorant outer buttfuck ass.
            There's life after NYC, except for those who don't make it out, or don't believe it's true.

            •  Oh look, terror porn guy travels. (0+ / 0-)

              Or he knows Google. How brave of him. Brave! Why, that's almost as god-damned awful as being in New York City during 9/11 and losing dozens.

              Why stopping off on Jerome Ave. after a Yankee game is like writing "mug my ignorant white suburban ass - I dare you".
              Let that one roll off the tongue. Scary black kids! In The Bronx! Must be armed!
              There's life after NYC, except for those who don't make it out, or don't believe it's true.
              Or those who can't handle it in the first place. The kind that needs a steel security blanket so they don't defecate in terror all the live-long day.

              Now, you wanna talk about London during the IRA bombings, or what it takes for a pretty gay guy to walk alone through the Muslim quarters of Paris or Marseilles?

              No, because at the end of the day, that requires sterner stuff than you're made of.

              Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

              by MBNYC on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:00:51 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  NOW YOU ACCUSE HIM OF LYING? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Wordsinthewind, fuzzyguy

                This diary isn't about you or if or not you have any fucking balls. YOU started this shit and now you want it to devolve into a pissing contest???

                How would that go over if you did it in any other diary?

                You've gotten out of hand.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 10:25:50 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Get a fucking life. (0+ / 0-)

                  This guy is shitting himself about being in a black part of town. Not a word from you, no you actually recommended it.

                  This guy gives a graphic, inside the mind of a murderer rundown of 12/14, and not a word from you. Again, you recommended that sick bullshit.

                  But I, one of the over-emotional, irrational gun-grabbers, or whatever the insult du jour is, make an offhand sarcastic remark about Google, and you lose it, in ALL CAPS no less.

                  Your standards, and I use the term loosely, are warped.

                  Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

                  by MBNYC on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 10:43:48 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You have no idea what kind of life he has lead (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fuzzyguy

                    He has lived in NYC, he has done a helluva lot of good for thousands, and I mean thousands of people. Without proof you dismiss his lifelong experiences and claim he's reading it on Google? Maybe I'm a bit testy now is because I KNOW HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

                    You've continually made this about him and not the argument.  That's HRable.

                    You have used the horror in Ct to emotionally manipulate and hide your empty position, hoping no one will notice the bait and switch.  I noticed, after all it is my diary you're shitting in. And one of the actual points I was making IN this diary on how people get manipulated, YOU did that!

                    And you still haven't actually brought anything constructive to the table here.

                    And you continue the pissing contest and act offended???  I agreed with what was posted by 43North.  I detest the propaganda you left in my diary.

                    I offered to clean the slate with you and start again, you've ignored that genuine offer and continued your abuse here.

                    We may never find common ground on this topic, you and I but I'll never know because you haven't actually discussed it with me or any of us.  

                    Your replies confirm that you didn't really read my diary, follow the links or watch the video at the end.  If you had you wouldn't be making the arguments you repeatedly have.

                    Stop diverting us from legitimate conversation and real solutions.  Look down thread and you'll see real discussion going on, from people that completely disagree on how to fix these problems.

                    There is progress being made but you don't want to be a part of that here, obviously.

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 11:23:24 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't need or want (0+ / 0-)

                      a 'clean slate' with you. We will never find common ground on gun control, because you're not able or willing to discuss the subject rationally and I, along with many others, have lost patience with that state of affairs.

                      You have used the horror in Ct to emotionally manipulate and hide your empty position, hoping no one will notice the bait and switch.
                      Yes, because the idea that I, and again many others, are genuinely shocked and horrified is just not possible, right? No, it's all a sinister conspiracy, long in the hatching, to take away the precious gun and make it cry.
                      There is progress being made but you don't want to be a part of that here, obviously.
                      Au contraire, we are making progress, not because, but in spite of you. Your diary was actually quite useful for that purpose, because it set up all the usual strawmen in a line, waiting for a willing match.

                      I started this conversation after 12/14 wanting and ready to have a debate and look for solutions. Instead, all of us that wanted that were met with insults and condescension, all nicely mixed up with paranoid rightwing talking points and the occasional flash of unspeakable cruelty.

                      You had your chance. You blew it. Deal.

                      Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

                      by MBNYC on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 11:52:20 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  So, then your only intention to come into my (4+ / 0-)

                        dairy was to disrupt and be disrespectful and sow seeds of deception and discord.

                        Because I blew it after 12-14? Me, really?

                        Within hours of that tragedy media propagandists started calling for gun control, the children weren't even buried. We didn't know what actually happened or WHY and I blew it?

                        There hasn't been any "progress" except to divide us here on DK and to divide this nation in ways that will destroy our party, something you refuse to acknowledge or see.

                        Gun Control will not stop the crimes, it will not stop the institutional theft and corruption that has made the majority of us into paupers leading us further into despair THAT breeds the conditions for increased violence and killings.

                        Who are you protecting or saving with your argument?  The children? Pshaw!  5 children die every day in this nation from neglect and abuse.  The majority occurs while in protective custody of the State, ask me I know first-hand what I went through as a child by those claiming to help me!

                        I was one of the lucky ones that survived the ordeal, thousands do not.  What about them? Is your feigned moral superiority that GC is the only best answer going to save them???? IS IT???

                        Is your claim that GC will stop the majority of suicides going to save the other half that still die???? That other half is bigger than my hometown of Johnson City, NY.  

                        I guess you don't need to care about them, hell, you don't live there, who gives a shit about the working poor in rundown shanty towns, right????

                        How many Johnson Cities is your precious GC going to save from being wiped off the map each and every year? NONE!

                        Don't play your manipulative emotional games with me young man.  I don't buy into your poppycock!

                        Deal with my condensation you earned it when you accused a dear friend of lying and playing a part they read on Google.

                        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                        by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 12:57:46 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yeah, you. (0+ / 0-)

                          You and your little buddies. You blew it so badly you'll never recover. In the history of fuck-ups, the gun lobby post-12/14 deserves a gold star.

                          The site is divided? Tell me, what's the weather like on your planet? The site is united, against you and everything you stand for. Anyone with a soul held their own children tighter; you folks grabbed your guns and unleashed a torrent of paranoid invective against all comers. Hitler! Over there!

                          Do you really think people aren't laughing at your bullshit?

                          We're going to have some form of gun control. It will happen, because thankfully, decent Americans are still in the majority in our country. We are tired of being held to ransom by a tyrannical minority, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not. A. Damned. Thing.

                          Don't play your manipulative emotional games with me young man.  I don't buy into your poppycock!
                          You forgot gorgeous and smart, Mrs. Romney. And my cock ain't for sale at any price you could afford.
                          Deal with my condensation
                          'Condescension', genius.

                          Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

                          by MBNYC on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:02:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  ROFL, dammit all that and I ended it with a (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Wordsinthewind, 43north, theatre goon

                            misspelling, so much for making my point.

                            :)

                            Hell, there has to be and edit button installed here!

                            As for your diatribe, meaningless, you hate, that's clear now, it's not about me and it never really was.

                            If I cared about people laughing at me, I'd be 6 feet under and never experienced my life as a transgendered woman.

                            Pathetic emotional ploy.

                            If the site was united, then Kos would have disbanded our group.  Clearly there are extremists on both sides and they are being weeded out.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:14:14 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

              •  A pretty gay guy? (3+ / 0-)

                Can't say I've ever been called "pretty".

                As to the IRA, sorry but I was busy at the time.
                Do you remember Meir Kahane?  El Sayyid Nosair?
                How one event leads to another?  343.

                Regarding the Muslim quarters of Paris or Marseilles?  I'll opine a pretty gay man would fare better than a pretty kafir woman in a short skirt and button-up blouse.

                Now, you wanna talk about London during the IRA bombings, or what it takes for a pretty gay guy to walk alone through the Muslim quarters of Paris or Marseilles?

                No, because at the end of the day, that requires sterner stuff than you're made of.

                I didn't see a lot of NYC which was humane, kind, decent, clean or respectful of others.  
                Most of the nice people were working poor, usually immigrants, or hispanic, muslim or black.  
                Now gentrified areas of Brooklyn, were like bombed-out Beirut, the north Bronx little better.  
                The South Bronx burnt a decade earlier.

                Don't like me?  Fine.  I'll lose neither sleep nor appetite over your dislike.

                Terror Prøn?  Ha!
                I've seen a wide spectrum of the evil people can do with casual objects and depraved indifference to human life.

                •  43N, that object used to cause depraved (0+ / 0-)

                  indifference would by our government these extremists have taken control over.

                  At least that's what I see...sadly.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 07:30:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  read this 3x, can't grok n /t (0+ / 0-)
                    •  Hum, okay. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      43north

                      I realize you were referencing a tool, like a spoon, knife, a baseball bat where people used said to commit unspeakable crimes, right?

                      The tool being used today is the power of the State.  They create conditions that allowed for the dehumanization of our species to occur and the destruction of our society in the process.

                      Fear the man whom has nothing to lose.  People don't care for one another anymore.  They don't see us as human.  I was overjoyed after 911 when people were actually nicer to one another. They'd stop and ask you your name and try to get to know you.  That lasted only a couple of months.  When people got back to their "normal" lives of pursuing the acquisition of money, power and fame.  Maybe not in that order or not all those goals.  

                      The selfishness kicked back in, the cold disregard for their neighbor, the callous disposition fueled by government policies to squeeze them and subdue them into silence and perpetual poverty and despair.

                      The new tool to be used to create depraved indifference revealed.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:14:14 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Grok'd (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        gerrilea

                        I'll be honest, Otteray Scribe and Labwitchy per virtue of their specialties and length of employment have me beat.

                        That said, the whole hammer and wedge the door shut thing was very real.  Cartel vs. Cartel, with terror not body counts being the goal.  We see it still in Mexico.

                        Wait until the likely gun-toting other member of the other cartel leaves, bust-in, wedge the door and torture/maim/kill his wife and/or children.  Five to ten minutes max, with a compatriot guarding the fire escape, your getaway route.

                        While I've never seen the Scarface chainsaw thing go down, machetes or really large knives, death by impaling, rape, castration of a child, along with hacking-off hands and slitting the throat were signature techniques.
                        The Russians were worse.  They liked pliers, metal cutters, drills, rape, long brutal bone-by-bone beatings, torches, and my specialty - arson.  The idea of beating you nearly to death, and have you die screaming in the fire was entirely to terrorize the populace.  As was their crimes against your family.

                        As to our culture, our violent culture?  Our gun-crazed violent culture?

                        Fix poverty, fix that "fuck-it" attitude of someone with no hope for a better tomorrow, and we'll go a long way towards making a better Nation.
                        Poverty breeds despair.  Once there's despair, the idea of tomorrow being important is gone.

                        It's why you teach first responders and military members to view themselves as dead already, so that fear of death doesn't preclude doing the task at-hand.
                        Die young, and make a pretty corpse.
                        Some handle it well-enough, others do not.

                        When Society as a whole feels that way?  We're well and thoroughly fucked.

                        An aside of sorts:
                        A lot of PTSD revolves around the not dying, and living without those who did.  
                        For some, once they looked into the Abyss, and the Abyss looks back?  
                        There was no turning away, no return to "before".  
                        The theatrical trick would be to have their eyes turn into inky black holes, as life was overtaken by the death/evil/emptiness.  It's apt.

                        Personally, I think accepting dying is a fact, unanticipated and often poorly planned, helped me when I was awash in death.
                        A child dying of spinal meningitis at age 3 is just as-tragic as a child dying by a bullet.  
                        Neither is natural for the parent, as our society teaches that children bury parents, parents don't bury children.
                        That's a 20th century discovery of antibiotics change, and doesn't hold true for much of the earth's population.

                        We only learned what the precipitators for SIDS were, mid-way through my career.
                        I dealt with too many "crib death" children, and some follow-on parental suicides.
                        The death of a child, removes the hope for a tomorrow, from many a parent.  Particularly if that's your one-and-only.

                        •  Known only too well for many of us, sadly. (0+ / 0-)
                          The death of a child, removes the hope for a tomorrow, from many a parent. Particularly if that's your one-and-only.
                          My own Godmother lost one of her twins in a car accident, within two weeks she was found by another Aunt standing naked in her bedroom, on her bed, singing the Star Spangled Banner.  She was never the same person ever again.

                          Having to bury my own mother at 14 yrs old changes things as well. Wounds that never really heal, lessening over time to leave scars never to be forgotten.

                          We each experience life's reality from our very own unique perspective and sometimes that reality seems impossible to bear.  Many can't accept it.  Today most people could care less about their fellow man.  Or they only care when it suits them or won't inconvenience them or after the tragedy has already happened.  

                          Excepting many fine people I've met here. There are very few people that are truly willing to help another. Rarely recognizing "there go I except for the grace of God."   I often wondered why there were so few of us left in the world.

                          The wondering ended a bit ago and the understanding kicked in that it's been conditioned out of us.

                          You've lead an amazing life of pain, evil and hope; the self-discovery along the way has made you into such a vocal advocate on so many issues, I truly respect that, thank you.

                          NOW how the hell to we get our mutual Progressive Democrats to understand these things?!

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 01:32:12 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

      •  Have I been a dick today in my own diary? (4+ / 0-)

        NOT that I'm aware of.  

        Please cease and desist this dickish game meant to derail honest public debate.

        I'm willing to ignore your disrespectful replies and start again.

        This time please address anything I wrote in the diary above.  We can find common ground that will make you happy and make our entire society better making me happy.

        If you want gun owners to give something up, what do you offer in return? Say no public speaking on Thursdays? Or no free press on Sundays, damming the couponers?

        Or could we all not give anything up and make our government create the conditions of prosperity that will keep us all safer?

        Your choice and turn.

        Go...I'll wait for an honest reply that gets us closer to these goals.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 03:23:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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