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  •  Sorry but that isn't a study (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, gerrilea, tytalus, 43north, lyvwyr101

    it is an article, published in a student-edited publication and not subject to peer review. It has been widely discredited. It's authors are Don Kates, a 2nd Amendment lawyer who works for the NRA, and Gary Mauser is also a paid NRA consultant. They are the gun lobby's version of climate change denial "scientists"

    You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

    by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 02:07:34 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  How can you ignore the data? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea

      The underlying data? Data self reported and published by the individual countries?

      Anyway, I think we are arguing at cross purposes. I want the problem of suicides and mental health addressed in our population. You appear to want a gun control. I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this.

      I'm going to continue to address mental health problems in a causal manner. I'm going to ask my elected representatives to do the same.

      It's real and it's true.

      * Don B. Kates (LL.B., Yale, 1966) is an American criminologist and constitutional
      lawyer associated with the Pacific Research Institute, San Francisco. He may be contacted
      at dbkates@earthlink.net; 360‐666‐2688; 22608 N.E. 269th Ave., Battle Ground,
      WA 98604.
      ** Gary Mauser (Ph.D., University of California, Irvine, 1970) is a Canadian criminologist
      and university professor at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC Canada.
      He may be contacted at www.garymauser.net, mauser@sfu.ca, and 604‐291‐3652.
      We gratefully acknowledge the generous contributions of Professor Thomas B. Cole
      (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Social Medicine and Epidemiology);
      Chief Superintendent Colin Greenwood (West Yorkshire Constabulary, ret.); C.B.
      Kates; Abigail Kohn (University of Sydney, Law); David B. Kopel (Independence
      Institute); Professor Timothy D. Lytton (Albany Law School); Professor William
      Alex Pridemore (University of Oklahoma, Sociology); Professor Randolph Roth
      (Ohio State University, History); Professor Thomas Velk (McGill University, Economics
      and Chairman of the North American Studies Program); Professor Robert
      Weisberg (Stanford Law School); and John Whitley (University of Adelaide, Economics).
      Any merits of this paper reflect their advice and contributions; errors are
      entirely ours.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...
      Joyce Malcolm reviewed of the subject of crime rates and homicides in England[17] and found that, "data on firearms ownership by constabulary area,” like data from the United States, show, “a negative correlation...[that is], where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest."

      A 1990 study by Rich et al. on suicide rates in Toronto and Ontario and psychiatric patients from San Diego reached the conclusion that increased gun restrictions, while reducing suicide-by-gun, resulted in no net decline in suicides, because of substitution of another method—namely leaping.[18] Killias argues against the theory of complete substitution, citing a number of studies that have demonstrated, in his view, "rather convincingly", that suicide candidates do not consistently turn to other means of suicide if their preferred means is not at hand.[14] A more extensive study published in 1993, however, covering far more areas and controlling for the effects of many other gun laws, found that gun control laws generally have no detectable effect on total suicide rates.[19]

      •  Because that study has been widely discredited (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tytalus, 43north, gerrilea, lyvwyr101

        I don't refute the data, I refute the conclusions drawn from that data because they are absurd.

        The quoted stuff you are using as proof...one of those studies is from yet another NRA lawyer:

        Joyce Malcom-"Next Generation Scholar" for the NRA's Civil Defense fund

        The other one uses data from the 1980's, and IMO the methodology is flawed. They use data from two major cities. Urban areas not only have lower rates of gun ownership, they have an abundance of high-rise structures from which to jump. Not a good representative sample, IMO.

        Anyways, there are numerous current, peer reviewed studies that show a direct correlation between firearm ownership and suicide rates, but I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. You can believe what you want. As for this though?

        Anyway, I think we are arguing at cross purposes. I want the problem of suicides and mental health addressed in our population. You appear to want a gun control.
        You don't seem to get it. I want both.

        You aren't the only person here who has been personally affected by this issue.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 04:13:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, for the volume of data (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SwedishJewfish, lyvwyr101

          that you provided here. It seems to fit what I found out about the problem of guns and suicide. "you cannot stop them" they say -- they need this myth to discount the possibility that guns exacerbate the situation.

          “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

          by tytalus on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 05:55:24 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I understand that you want both (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea

          It just seems that you are conflating an illness and a symptom.

          Millions of people are personally affected by this issue. New ones every day. I want to help.

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