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View Diary: WH solar panels: A second term bone? (34 comments)

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  •  Actually ... (3+ / 0-)
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    BYw, radical simplicity, Zinman

    I don't see Albanius as 'throwing around insults'.  The analogy did seem appropriate to me.

    Look, we can't get wording 100% right 100% of the time.  Your comment to RLMiller was / is easy to read as quite insulting and dismissive although that might not have been your intent.

    There is no serious person engaged in the discussion of clean energy / renewables who is 'back to the caves, but no fires allowed' with starvation / death of perhaps 95-99% of humanity associated with this.  There are advocates for massive investment for getting off carbon ASAP that go beyond my five percent per year but I would tell you that the vast majority would be celebrating in the streets if 5% per year were agreed on -- and that is highly achievable globally.

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 06:32:13 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's NRA-like slippery slope logic (0+ / 0-)

      is fairly insulting

      And let me say what apparently Albanius won't or can't, my comment was not meant to be insulting. If you or RLMiller or anyone else were insulted you have my sincere apologies for that.

      As I said else where the only point I was trying to make is that fossil fuels will be a part of our lives for the next couple decades easily. Thus if not the keystone xl we will need something like it. Enivromental concerns of course should be our first pirority but we have to keep in mind energy concerns too

      •  My point ... (1+ / 0-)
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        is that your comment could be read as insulting even as you didn't mean it that way and Albanius could be read as insulting (as you did) even if it wasn't meant that way.

        In additional, worth noting difference between direct attack on individual and suggesting that how one makes an argument/analogy/otherwise might fall short.  One is a personal attack, other is engaging in debate.  

        E.g., Albanius didn't write something like "you are an NRA stooge ..." which absolutely would have been an attack.

        Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

        by A Siegel on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 05:43:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  sorry but that's splitting hairs (0+ / 0-)

          I'm willing to grant that there's a way to view my comment as insulting because it was short and open to some interpretation.  That's on me because I didn't take the time to write as much as I should have.

          There's nothing ambiguous about Albanius' work in my mind and if he or she disagrees they are welcome to say so. But I'm not going to argue the intent of a poster with another poster.  I believe the reasoning of that should be apparent.

          Frankly either way it's still an attack, just a passive aggressive one as it stands where in he or she can fall back on 'well I didn't really call you that. On any other forum I'd call that trolling having seen a lot of it, here idk maybe that's just how they really are. Don't know and not sure I care to know that much.

          This is going to be my last reply on this because I rather feel bad about dragging your diary off topic. As it is I've persisted only really because of the twin reasons that you are the author in question and because I wanted to give my best effort at communicating an idea that I think is important even while thinking it's an idea that might not go over too well with some.

          Anyways it's been interesting,


      •  Careful, you're making a leap there (1+ / 0-)
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        A Siegel

        Just because fossil fuels will remain part of our economy for the foreseeable future does NOT mean that we need Keystone XL or "something like it".  This is what RLMiller, A Siegel, and Albanius are trying to make clear.  

        Our economy will be perfectly fine without Keystone XL.  Our economy will not be fine, however, if we fail to address climate change.  Look at Superstorm Sandy.  The damage it caused will look like a minor hiccup in the future if we fail to act.  Now is the time to decisively begin the transition away from fossil fuels.  

        •  perhaps but not unreasonable one (0+ / 0-)

          Canada's oil production will be a big part of the 'final phase' of our oil dependence. Right now they have 2 choices, ship it though the US to the refineries there or ship it west to Russia or China. Personally I'd rather it go though the US with the major caveat of course that it is environmentally safe

          I totally support A Siegel's 5% a year, I think it doable and a goal we need to have but there are both long term problems to solve (demand  compared to when for example solar is avialible) and short  term problems like tranistioning away from oil, rebuilding our power grid.

          Let me also add that noone really knows what climate change will do to the earth it's like russian roulette with an infinite chamber and reloading bullets.  But then again to me that's more then enough reason to not press our luck on that issue

          •  So ... (0+ / 0-)

            1.  The path west looks very unlikely due to domestic Canadian opposition.

            2.  We don't "know" what climate change will do but we have some strong basis for understanding that this will be quite bad for humanity.

            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

            by A Siegel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 05:47:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  with all due respect (0+ / 0-)

              I'm begining to feel like you're purposefully ignoring the multiple times I've flat out said climate change is both real and dangerous, what more do you want? Because if you're waiting for me to utterly and mindlessly agree with your exact viewpoint I hope you have a lot of time on your hands

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