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View Diary: Gun "Enthusiast" In Your Life? Here, Let Me Make It Easier. (UPDATED X2) (230 comments)

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  •  My observation (6+ / 0-)

    Let me start by saying that I feel in an odd position.  Here on Kos I tend to lean more toward RKBA than for the ban teh gunz crowd.  On facebook I am the anti-gun liberal that argues against all the brain-dead status posters.

     My default link is numer of deaths in US from guns vs. Japan and the UK, that is a hard, harsh number.  Even then, I get challenged.  When I quoted the President about 30,000 deaths last year, I was bluntly told I was wrong.  Please note, almost all of these arguments are with liberals.  My facebook feed is stunningly shy on conservatives, and if someone posts Fox News very often, they aren't on it at all.  It includes this gem (again, these are all die-hard liberals who would fit right in here on Kos):

    Nothing like that could ever happen here....
    My observation from facebook is that everyone argues from anecdote, not from statistics or disprovable facts.  Above, you are constantly quoting statistics.  I think you are exactly right about that.  One step further I would take would be to link to the data.  This has been going around facebook, I find it a handy reference sheet (Note, original author unknown.  I have not verified the facts of this post).  Google says maybe it is Josh Fielder
    So, here's my two cents (which will end up being closer to $1.50 I'm sure) and I'm sure I will regret posting this later, due to the "friends" I will lose while exercising my First Amendment, but here goes.
    Instead of posting a meme with a picture and a falsely attributed quote or a made up statistic, I've spent my time researching the gun violence/gun control debate. And I'd like to talk about some of the pervasive themes I've seen lately.
    First off, Hitler did not say "In order to conquer a country, you must first disarm its citizens." In fact, Hitler made it his position to enable guns to be obtained more easily.
     Secondly, the presidents, and I mean ALL of them, and their families, receive death threats on a daily basis. President Obama did not enact the regulations that REQUIRE Secret Service protection for him and his family. If you believe your children are as much of a target as the president's children, then you have a self inflated idea of your position in this world.
     Thirdly, there is NO law or bill being considered that would allow anyone to come marching into your home to take your legally obtained and legally owned firearms. There are possible laws that are being explored that would require more responsibility on the part of the gun owner or person purchasing a gun (i.e. pass a background check even if buying a gun from a gun show dealer). If you buy a car from a dealer it must be registered (a record of the transfer is documented). If you buy a car from a private citizen, it must be registered. If you buy a gun from a dealer, there is a record of that sale and it is registered. So how is it illogical to require the same for private sales of firearms?
    Fourth, there are not more people being killed with baseball bats than guns. If you disagree with that because you saw a picture stating otherwise on the internet, then I would like to offer you the chance to buy some oceanfront property in Arizona and I'll throw in the Brooklyn Bridge for free. There is no magical solution for solving the problem of gun violence. THAT is what we need to solve.
     We don't ban cars that are used in DUI related deaths, but we do enact regulations regarding blood alcohol limits, prosecute people who enable a drunk driver to operate a vehicle after serving them, promote a DUI campaign raising awareness and educating drivers on the dangers of driving while intoxicated. All of which has reduced DUI related fatalities by over 40% in a decade.
     The media is not hiding other gun related stories because they want to sensationalize the problem, they are simply unable to cover every gun death story because there would be an average of 80 of them each day. So they concentrate (unfortunately) on the massacres which I think we can all agree, happen all too often.
     I find the fact that more children are killed in the US by guns than in the entire Middle East region, very disturbing.
    I find it disturbing that the NRA blames the rise in violent shootings on video games and then comes out with its own shooting video game (categorized for children as young as 4 years of age) less than a month after Newtown.
    I find it disturbing that other countries spend in excess of twice as much as the US on violent video games and have a small fraction of the amount of gun related deaths/injuries.
    I find it disturbing that instead of looking for a solution to a problem like Newtown, there are people wasting their time and energy by trying to turn it into a conspiracy theory.
    I find it disturbing that guns are the third largest killer of children ages 5-14 in the US.
     I find it disturbing that a child in America is 12 times more likely to be killed with a gun than the rest of the "developed" world.
     I find it disturbing that there are more guns privately owned in America than the next SEVENTEEN countries combined.
     I find it disturbing that all of these statistics are not discussed but fake statistics about a baseball bat death rate are plastered everywhere.
     I find it disturbing that some people believe that the ONLY answer to this problem is more guns.
    Banning all firearms is NOT the answer, which is exactly why it's not being proposed. This country has enacted laws that didn't work before, so they've been revised, repealed, reformed, etc. It's ludicrous to think that as a society, we evolve, but the laws governing us cannot? The NRA states that the assault weapons ban didn't work the first time. Well, you know what they say, "If at first you don't succeed, f*%k it.".
     If armed guards are the only answer to ending school shootings, then explain the VT shooting. Virginia Tech had an entire police department complete with a SWAT unit. Explain Columbine, which had an armed officer on staff. When discussing an end to gun violence in schools, there should be NOTHING left off of the table.
    Ronald Reagan, a huge gun proponent and signor of the Brady Bill, wrote to Congress in 1994 asking them to propose legislation limiting or stopping altogether the manufacture of guns classified as assault weapon. And anyone saying "assault weapon" is a made up term should remember that every word in every language is, in fact, made up.
     And yes, criminals don't typically obey laws, but we still have them. Can you use that logic to say there should be none at all? No.
     Let me be clear, I am NOT anti gun. I have nothing against guns or responsible gun owners. I served proudly in the military, I worked in armed security, I've hunted, and enjoy target shooting since I was a kid. And I'm sure most gun enthusiasts are the same way. However, this issue should be discussed logically and rationally, and all I see are comments and pictures that are anything but rational and for the most part, are just viral, inflammatory, unresearched, vitriol.
    The president enacted 23 executive actions today, of which only 2 have anything to do with limiting the availability of a category of gun or a magazine capacity. The remaining 21 deal with aspects regarding background checks, school safety and mental health system requirements and deficiencies. Will it be a perfect solution? No. Will it help? We'll see. Is it better than doing nothing? Definitely. If we keep using the statement, "It's too soon to talk about it." after each tragedy, pretty soon, we'll never talk about it.
    OK, so maybe it ended up closer to $2.00 instead of 2 cents. So sue me.

    Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

    by lostboyjim on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 06:47:02 PM PST

    •  If they say the 30,000 number is wrong (4+ / 0-)

      Break it down for them:

      In 2009 (last available data) there were 36,909 suicides. At least 50% of suicides are committed with a firearm. So that makes an average of 18,504 suicides by gun, per year.

      According to Slate, there were approximately 981 deaths by firearm between December 14, 2012 and January 14, 2013 (Note-this number does NOT include suicides) Average that out by 12 months, and you have 11,772 deaths per year. Adding the suicide and non-suicide numbers together, and you will get 30,276 a year, which you might have to point out to the Freepers is already well above 30,000. And this figure is likely a low estimate, because the number of homicides are actually lowest in the winter months and spike during the summer, and because suicide rates are rising, especially among veterans-who use firearms in 60% of suicides.

      You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

      by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:06:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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